What could 3.4 contact points bring to the future of LR?

Votale wrote:@ Efraz, nobody except homos use the contact point hack for real tracks. It's ghey.

Here we see the efrazable in his natural habitat:


Also @shotoku HOLY CRAP, DAT RANT

Ladies, SHUT THE [censored] UP.

I regret making this thread. I was wrong when I thought people would be nice and calm with other peoples opinions, but I was wrong.

Admin, please lock this thread.

Shotoku wrote:
I disagree with everything in this paragraph. Every. single. word. and I'm confused why you think something that looks awesome sucks balls instead only because someone made it with contact points on. That is very arrogant, and I also don't think "taking the difficulty out of LR" is something bad, you seem to think that people need to suffer to make tracks which is very stupid.

Also, CONTACT POINTS DON'T EVEN MAKE IT THAT MUCH EASIER, ONLY A LITTLE. STOP WHINING ABOUT HOW IT MAKES EVERYTHING EASY AS [censored].

Ditto.

And holy nipples at the amount of contradictions in this comment.. One, I didn't say any tricks suck balls. Please use an actual statement or something. You exaggeration of my statment "It's less impressive" to "it sucks balls" is rather insane. Two, you basically just said, "I can't believe you can say that a trick is less impressive just because someone made it with a feature that makes it easier to make them." Makes sense, yeah. Third, if you're suffering while making a track, why the heck are you playing this game? You obviously aren't playing it because you enjoy it. Do things you enjoy doing, or don't play in my opinion.

Lastly, he asked for opinions, so I gave my. Deal with it and "stop whining" about that.

The goal shouldn't be to make LR easier. It should be to make it better. That's why Mhenr would never implement these kinds of features.

I make manuals and what is this

OTDE wrote:I make manuals and what is this

2012

@Votale
I only quoted what I was interpreting. If you want to mince words about my exagerations then then that's okay with me, but when you say "the point of most games is to be difficult to be good at" that's where I get the "suffer for you LR track" idea from.
I just ranted because all you said came across as being arrogant to me and I didn't agree so it lit a fuse and I' sorry for being rash about that, I take back the "stop whining part" because yes I over-reacted much more than you, but you still should know that seeing the contact points doesn't make things as easy to do as snapping your fingers, it just allows you to see them, not how to use lines to interact with them. That still takes practice and time.

I've never suffered through making a track, so I honestly have no idea what you're saying. Why would you make something that isn't fun to make? To impress people? And it's true that most games aren't supposed to be easy to be good at. But being "good" at Line Rider doesn't necessarily mean difficult tricks anyways. However, it's an aspect of being good at it, and while contact points make trick-making easier, as it has been admitted, you're in terms making a large aspect of the game easier as well, which isn't a good thing IMO.

1) By suffer I'm saying it as suffering through the time you need to spend to get a certain trick.

2) I said on Sledcast today that I liked things added to LR so people could get their ideas of tracks made easier, producing the result they want others to see. By extension, I guess that means making tricks easier. You seem to be saying you just don't want tricks easier, and by extension making tracks harder to make. That is probably the biggest issue I had with your opinion.

3) Contact points don't make things a crapton easier IMO, so this entire thread is a moot point.

Votale wrote:
The goal shouldn't be to make LR easier. It should be to make it better. That's why Mhenr would never implement these kinds of features.

You know what would make LR better for me?

Dynamic lines that interact with gravity and other lines (and of course Bosh!). You'd be able to snap them on only one end, and that'd let you do all sorts of stuff like draw motors, elevators, switches and things I haven't even considered. You could draw a tree with regular scenery lines, but make the leaves all short dynamic lines. Then when Bosh hits the tree, the leaves would fly off and fall to the ground. You could do "real" scenery, where you draw a ground from regular static lines, but make everything else dynamic, so that the supports you'd see holding up things like bridges and whatnot would actually be real supports - I'd love to do a track where Bosh is trying to escape from a string of collapsing buildings that are actually collapsing!

I'd love to make it so that I could just log in with a single ID (which would be the same as a forum ID, but I can't do that atm as for some reason you guys are still content to use a crappy free forum that means I can't do a single bit of game/community integration) and be able to access tracks from anywhere in the world, and never have to back them up (as I've moved computers over the years it's been a massive [censored] to try and keep my previous work that I've invested a fair amount of time into). I'd love to make it so that I could invite someone to draw on my canvas in realtime, so that we could work together and create something cool, or just screw around and draw genitals everywhere. I had something like that working a while ago and it was the most fun I've ever had with LR.

I'd love to introduce things that take LR back to its roots as a fun toy that has awesome newbie appeal while still being something that pros can invest a bit of time into and create something breathtaking. What about a pencil tool that draws much nicer curves (if you've ever used the smoothing function on the brush tool in Flash, it'd be like that), or funny crashes (if you've played N and seen the ninja explode, you might get an idea of my inspiration there)? Why would being able to fill areas of track be a bad thing if it means you're able to spend more time drawing something beautiful? Why couldn't we make it so that you can make super acceleration lines by layering on more and more accel lines into the same area? Or make it so that it's possible to unseat Bosh but still have him hold on to the sled by the rope?

I've solved the problems of tracks not working cross-platform and laggy rendering. You all saw the C builds I had working a while ago - the foundation is there. If there's an audience who might actually appreciate something new, I'll build on that foundation and make LR fresh again.

As for my views on visible contact points - I despise excessive quirking and I made my contact point build an entirely different one to my then-current variant because I didn't want to make abusing the engine even more of a headline feature, or even an easter egg. I just wanted to help out people who were interested in the underlying mechanics. To be entirely honest, I'd love to remove all quirks but they're a necessary evil with this community.

edit: Also, why on earth is there still a censor here? If I want to swear, it's because I'm making a harsh emphasis on a point. We're not 12 years old and unable to control our language anymore.

mhenr18 wrote:
You know what would make LR better for me?

Dynamic lines that interact with gravity and other lines (and of course Bosh!). You'd be able to snap them on only one end, and that'd let you do all sorts of stuff like draw motors, elevators, switches and things I haven't even considered. You could draw a tree with regular scenery lines, but make the leaves all short dynamic lines. Then when Bosh hits the tree, the leaves would fly off and fall to the ground. You could do "real" scenery, where you draw a ground from regular static lines, but make everything else dynamic, so that the supports you'd see holding up things like bridges and whatnot would actually be real supports - I'd love to do a track where Bosh is trying to escape from a string of collapsing buildings that are actually collapsing!

Man...that'd be amazing

Wolf_Spirit wrote:

mhenr18 wrote:
You know what would make LR better for me?

Dynamic lines that interact with gravity and other lines (and of course Bosh!). You'd be able to snap them on only one end, and that'd let you do all sorts of stuff like draw motors, elevators, switches and things I haven't even considered. You could draw a tree with regular scenery lines, but make the leaves all short dynamic lines. Then when Bosh hits the tree, the leaves would fly off and fall to the ground. You could do "real" scenery, where you draw a ground from regular static lines, but make everything else dynamic, so that the supports you'd see holding up things like bridges and whatnot would actually be real supports - I'd love to do a track where Bosh is trying to escape from a string of collapsing buildings that are actually collapsing!

Man...that'd be amazing

I want this. This is amazing.

mhenr18 wrote:Also, why on earth is there still a censor here? If I want to swear, it's because I'm making a harsh emphasis on a point. We're not 12 years old and unable to control our language anymore.

That would be so amazing.

OTDE wrote:I make manuals and what is this

I feel you

This thread is now about collapsing lines

Chuggers wrote:This thread is now about collapsing lines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmH0t6OFAOM#t=1m01s

@ shotoku: My point is, if you are trying to make something that isn't fun to make and that you enjoy doing, you're obviously trying to merely impress people rather than have fun with the game, which (fun and enjoyment) is the point of the whole game. If you say "but I enjoy making difficult tricks," then you wouldn't suffer through making them in the first place.

Votale wrote:It's absolutely stupid to be able to see contact points.
I've played with them, it's way to easy. It takes basically all of the skill out of making difficult tricks.

Maybe kevan could make a hard mode for people with your mindset, where the lines you put on the screen are randomly offset slightly, just to put more skill into making tricks.
I'm sure you'd enjoy it. It's not cheating or anything, it's the opposite. Right?

All I'm getting from you is an idea from skill that is different from mine, that's the only reason we are really butting heads.

My definition is that skill is being able to do something difficult easier than other people through practice and learning (like playing an instrument).

What I was getting from you is that time needs to be spent on every detail for it to be impressive; that if you spend enough time working on it it will turn out good (same logic as World of Warcraft).

Also I never said anything about LR being unenjoyable, I already clarified what I meant by suffer.

I have idea why you keep bringing time into the equation. I don't suffer through spending time making things I enjoy. Btw, you clarified your definition of "suffer" by using the phrase "to suffer."

Read what Mhenr said, he summarized my views on the subject is his words also. I agree wholeheartedly with him.

mhenr18 wrote:
I'd love to make it so that I could just log in with a single ID (which would be the same as a forum ID, but I can't do that atm as for some reason you guys are still content to use a crappy free forum that means I can't do a single bit of game/community integration)

Best part of that post.

Thread = hijacked by ganon mhenr

I'm definitely feelin the mhenr/votale vibe in this thread.

I was gonna close this, but it has gotten more civilized. Guys, this thread is not about arguing with each other. Totally unnecessary. Just give your opinions on the topic of the thread. You're not helping Kevan by being snappy with each other. My name is red.

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I'm kind of conflicted.

View 1: I don't quirk, but I know I'd be pretty sour if a curve tool was added. The process of making a flatsled track would be quite dry. Instead of taking time and making something aesthetically pleasing, you'd just drag your mouse a bit and it looks awesome. That's super lame.

View 2: On the other hand, maybe it's kind of selfish. IDK. A lack of an influx of new members doesn't mean we can't make things less tedious. Maybe people here just don't want to waste their time.

View 1: People say "Oh you can just not use it." But seriously, the magic would be gone. I enjoy the challenge. Imagine how upset I would be if people could just press a ****ing button and have perfect curves like magic, yet for 6 years we have had to draw them ourselves and it gave us one more thing to be good at. It'd nullify any new tracks I made. Contact point thing is basically a fling tool. The same principles of the curve tool apply IMO. Yeah yeah it can be used for other stuff. Maybe two guys would use it not as a fling tool. Sorry, I'm mad because I was thinking about the curve tool. Lol. Kevan I'm not mad at you.


IDK guys. You can't please everyone with these features. That's why I think we shouldn't focus on new features like this. >_> If you bring it up, then you're going to disappoint the people that like it if you decide not to implement it. If you implement it, you piss off the people that don't like it. So why don't we add new features that don't affect how tricks are made?

tl;dr dynamic lines/read mhenr's post. You can't piss off the people that make edited tracks using many recordings because nobody does that. Bingo. Everybody wins.

Thank you for asking us about this stuff, Kevan. Not keeping us in the dark is great.

Amen.

ACwazHere wrote:I was gonna close this, but it has gotten more civilized. Guys, this thread is not about arguing with each other. Totally unnecessary. Just give your opinions on the topic of the thread. You're not helping Kevan by being snappy with each other. My name is red.

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I'm kind of conflicted.

View 1: I don't quirk, but I know I'd be pretty sour if a curve tool was added. The process of making a flatsled track would be quite dry. Instead of taking time and making something aesthetically pleasing, you'd just drag your mouse a bit and it looks awesome. That's super lame.

View 2: On the other hand, maybe it's kind of selfish. IDK. A lack of an influx of new members doesn't mean we can't make things less tedious. Maybe people here just don't want to waste their time.

View 1: People say "Oh you can just not use it." But seriously, the magic would be gone. I enjoy the challenge. Imagine how upset I would be if people could just press a ****ing button and have perfect curves like magic. It'd nullify any new tracks I made. Contact point thing is basically a fling tool. Yeah yeah it can be used for research. Maybe two guys would use it not as a fling tool. Sorry I'm mad because I was thinking about the curve tool. Lol. Kevan I'm not mad at you.


IDK guys. You can't please everyone with these features. That's why I think we shouldn't even be discussing stuff like this. >_> If you bring it up, then you're going to disappoint the people that like it if you decide not to implement it. If you implement it, you piss off the people that don't like it. So why don't we add new features that don't affect how tricks are made?

tl;dr dynamic lines/read mhenr's post

Thank you for asking us about this stuff, Kevan. Not keeping us in the dark is great.

This, this right here. This is the sort of thing I want to hear from you guys. AC nailed every single thing I wanted to hear from the opposing side. Does this affect track/trick making? And he answered it with a simple "It affects trick making" without making people who like this idea feel like [censored]. He gave excellent examples and comparisons to explain how it's a bad idea, despite it not relating to his track style. Thank you AC for explaining why this is a bad idea.

So why don't we add new features that don't affect how tricks are made?

about that... Let's see ummm... No one besides the progressives tell me what I should add? Guys, if you give me a list of things "help" and "improve" LR without affecting how tricks are made, I will make it. No seriously, the majority of the things you want are bug fixes I've already fixed. So if that's the kind of version you want that's, for lack of a better word, "better" than 6.7. Just give me the word.