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How to give criticism

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ACwazHere
linerage
Purtle
Wizzy
Kohuda
Cereal
CHiH
Sssschiller
KillinTime2792
hypothet
Hotflash
Georgio_jc
Rafael
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How to give criticism Empty How to give criticism

Post by Rafael Mon May 09, 2011 1:19 pm

So lately I've been seeing too much bad criticism on tracks. There are few new people joining this forum, we have to give them a feeling that they are welcome. This takes more than saying "hi" in their introduction thread. So, to give good criticism you need to know a few things:


  • Why do new people join this forum?
  • How does a newb interpret Line Rider terms?
  • In which order do people learn tricks?
  • What do people want to hear when they release a track?
Why do new people join this forum?
I think most people start Line Rider when they see other tracks and they're like "hey, I want to do that too!". They play around a bit, and decide to join a forum to see what they think about their tracks. A new member does not join to make new friends, he joins to show his tracks and sometimes to meet his Line Rider "idols" (if they have one).


How does a newb interpret Line Rider terms?
I don't know about you, but when I started Line Rider I did not know what alt flings, flanuals, every-frame flings, grolls and everything was. Neither do newbs now know what asdfs and hand-feet dual flings are. When you want to criticize someone who is new, you should think about the knowledge the person has about Line Rider. If someone just got the hang of gravity wells he doesn't know that flings work every 2 frames. Most of the time they think that they are just lots of the same gwells after eachother, not knowing that you've also got to think about other things. So if you say "practice on flings" they'll try, and most likely get something like this.
Then, if you say "keep practicing on flings" they'll have no idea what to do and may just give up. If you want to teach somebody something (and this counts for everything, pretty much), you have to explain what you're teaching him first.

In which order do people learn tricks?
When I made my first gwell, I could already do nose and tail manuals. I think I had been playing for 1 year when I made my first fling. My point here is, that people can't know how to do everything after the first moment they play Line Rider. It takes time to learn certain tricks. I've seen some newbies one of their tracks. It had some
nose manuals but mostly existed out of flatsledding and airtime. Then I saw a comment saying "you should add some flings in your tracks". Now I'm pretty damn sure that if somebody can't do gwells he also can't do a fling. Think about yourself when you started Line Rider when you were around as good as the person you're criticizing, and think about the trick(s) you learned after that. Those are the tricks you should help the new person to learn.

What do people want to hear when they release a track?
When people release a track, they want their work to be complimented. They want to be praised for their work. So if they release a track (especially their first one, which is an achievement for many people who started Line Rider), they don't want to hear something like "that sucked". However, saying "That was a great track!" also isn't good, as then you would be lying. So what you should do is put everything in perspective. You should say something like "That was really good for your first track! Much better than my first one, that's for sure!" This way you're complimenting his track but you're not lying about what you say.

______________________________________________________________________________

So hopefully when you see a track like this, your criticism won't be like this:
That wasn't good at all. You almost only went to the right and you the only trick I've seen was flatsledding. Add some manuals and flings and hopefully it'd look much better then.

But will now be more like this:
That's a great track for your first! It's really fast compared to my first track! If I were you, I'd try to let Bosh to some more directions. This track mostly went rightwards, and it'd be much more fun to go up, down and to the left too!
Keep playing!
As you can see, I complimented his work, I gave him tips about how to improve his track that he is certainly able to do and I explained the saying "improve your direction" because that wouldn't say anything to him.

Thanks for reading, I hope you learned something Smile


Last edited by Rafael on Mon May 09, 2011 4:45 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Post by Georgio_jc Mon May 09, 2011 1:26 pm

I've recently realized that too and I have to say:
Rafael, you're a great member! Thanks for pointing it out! Smile This thread should be stickied.
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Post by Hotflash Mon May 09, 2011 2:10 pm

Totally agreed with everything!.. but .. what's that about flings work per second frame? O.o
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Post by hypothet Mon May 09, 2011 2:54 pm

Aka, don't be a d*ck.

What I normally do: With beginners, I'm easygoing. They hang off of people's words like your mom hangs off of-- you know what? I won't go there. Anyways, being nice is great. It gets you good friends. My friend is a complete asshat sometimes and it's really hard to deal with. No one likes him as much. I rant alot, but that's because of my feeling of fairness or morality, and no ill-will is meant to any person in particular. Criticisms are welcome when someone knows just what you're criticizing, and someone who barely knows you may not perceive it exactly the way you do. And that goes for people who know you well over the internet, too.

I think that telling someone what exactly they did wrong (or right) or what they can improve upon is of the utmost importance. Conveying the idea takes a ton of work. Conveying all of it is near impossible, in my opinion. It's like explaining the experience of looking through specially made (just for you) glasses to someone who cannot see. However, try to get an idea across of where exactly someone went wrong. It takes a lot of work, but work gives way to improvement, and it's all worthwhile in the end.



Flings every second frame are normally very powerful @hotflash. Also, it will only really pick up, I think every two frames.
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Post by KillinTime2792 Mon May 09, 2011 3:05 pm

most flings only work every other frame due to how the lines work. most everyframes turn into grolls or kill him.
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Post by Sssschiller Mon May 09, 2011 4:04 pm

Very good done, Rafael. It's important to motivate new members Wink
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Post by CHiH Mon May 09, 2011 4:47 pm

Great thread Smile

Hell, to be honest I don't know what half those tricks are, haha. But the idea is encouragement and progression. If you unable to do this, don't let me ever catch you making a "linerider is dieing" thread Wink
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Post by Cereal Mon May 09, 2011 5:28 pm

Black text = srs bsns

THANK YOU Rafael, it's about time someone made a thread about this. I always find it awkward trying to think of something to post on a newbs first/second track. I also know that it took me about 6 months to figure out basic nose manuals. :P

Oh, and I remember when you released Aura with Klinga. I thought it was really good at the time xD
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Post by Kohuda Mon May 09, 2011 5:48 pm

Brilliant tutorial Rafael, possibly new members will stay longer from now on, if people do what's told in the tut. :P
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Post by Rafael Mon May 09, 2011 6:09 pm

Thanks for the positive comments, guys Smile It's always nice to help people out.
@ Cereal, black text, vry srs bsns :|
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Post by Wizzy Mon May 09, 2011 6:28 pm

Don't you think it's a little saddening that a thread like this has to be made in the first place? I mean, a tutorial on how to give criticism xD are we really that (what's the word I'm looking for?) jaded?
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Post by CHiH Mon May 09, 2011 6:36 pm

Yes, we are. We are the elitists who've seen the pinnacle of what has been accomplished. So when some new guy comes on and posts a kickflip, we're like "saw that in 2008". Fight that urge!

And just remember that it can be rather humbling to look for advice from people they might have only known by videos on youtube.
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Post by hypothet Mon May 09, 2011 9:56 pm

"We" is not always "us" as a community, chih. We've seen the pinnacle, sure, but all of us have not seen the ultimate accomplishment, and we need to remember that every person that posts a video may or may not be part of that ultimate accomplishment. We all started out just like that person. We are just like them, because they started out like us.

That's my opinion. Good luck figuring it out and interpreting it. 8D
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Post by Wizzy Mon May 09, 2011 10:01 pm

You just said what chih said in a bunch more words
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Post by CHiH Mon May 09, 2011 10:16 pm

But to a new member, "we" are only as good as the ones who respond. That's all I was saying
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Post by Purtle Tue May 10, 2011 12:19 am

Jeez, I guess things must have gone down the tubes since I stopped watching Lr vids/posting in them.

Nice job being jerks :|.
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Post by linerage Tue May 10, 2011 12:30 am

rafael, that was actually pretty descriptive :3 Ty

But it seems to be ironic though :/
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Post by Wizzy Tue May 10, 2011 12:49 am

Linerage does make a point. Rafael isn't exactly the nicest guy about criticism lol. Most of the time (and I'm not tryin to pick on you) all I ever hear him say is "oh you could do better."
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Post by Georgio_jc Tue May 10, 2011 12:54 am

Wizzy, stop making an arguement ..it's senseless. and even if he does, at least he tries to become better? sorry swearing alert.
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Post by Wizzy Tue May 10, 2011 1:08 am

I'm not making an argument, I'm agreeing with linerage. It is pretty ironic the guy that doesn't give the best criticism is showing us how to give it.
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Post by ACwazHere Tue May 10, 2011 1:23 am

Thanks for taking the time to make this. Smile



+Maybe if people stumble upon a random track on YouTube, they could give them criticism and then point them here. 8D
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Post by Yobanjojoe Tue May 10, 2011 2:17 am

flings work every 2 frames.

I just learnt something new.
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Post by Rafael Wed May 11, 2011 8:07 am

ACwazHere wrote:Thanks for taking the time to make this. Smile



+Maybe if people stumble upon a random track on YouTube, they could give them criticism and then point them here. 8D
There are tons of tracks being released every day, it's a shame that so few people try to get them into this community Sad
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Post by Stallie Wed May 11, 2011 4:30 pm

How do nembz interput with LR: Acctually some people like me found the linerider site and decided to make tracks though i sucked at linerider for about two years back in 2008, though when I went on youtube for my frist time witch was four years ago and searched linerider and found uncounds tracks and an old track made by someone who lives in france. That is kind of how i got inspiried my self though i only could do manuls but looking at the tracks we see today, i got way better at linerider and it took me 6 months to work on flings, XY, manuals and quircks. I agree with the rest, just not, how nembz interput with LR.
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Post by Rafael Wed May 11, 2011 4:42 pm

stallie wrote:How do nembz interput with LR: Acctually some people like me found the linerider site and decided to make tracks though i sucked at linerider for about two years back in 2008, though when I went on youtube for my frist time witch was four years ago and searched linerider and found uncounds tracks and an old track made by someone who lives in france. That is kind of how i got inspiried my self though i only could do manuls but looking at the tracks we see today, i got way better at linerider and it took me 6 months to work on flings, XY, manuals and quircks. I agree with the rest, just not, how nembz interput with LR.
I think you misinterpret the meaning of interpreting :P
How do newbs interpret tricks means what people think a certain trick is when they hear it... or something like that, can't really describe it perfectly xD
What I meant was that noobs don't know how a fling works the first time they see one, and this works the same with pretty much any other trick.
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