About stacking and messiness.

So, recently I've seen plenty of people criticizing my criticism on stacking. I thought it'd be nice to show people the fundamental difference between stacking methods and the reason some are liked and some aren't.
I'm going to take a recent track where I disliked the stacking (Cloud Nine) and compare it with Incito.
The first thing that decreases the amount of ugliness added to a track is the distance between the 2 (or more) stacked wells. IMO, in stacks, the lines should be spaced out in a way that there is around one line width (or more) of white between the two lines, like in here:

Spoiler:

This creates a different effect than when the lines are very close to eachother, like in here:

Spoiler:

The first one looks more clean (IMO).
Tip: If you have a stack with wells close to each other, try moving the weak(est) well(s) further away from the strong(est) one(s). It often has no effect to the strength of the well and works just fine.
The second one is the angle and size of the stacking lines compared to each other. They shouldn't differ too much (although sometimes it's not possible, like when you want to make certain "WTF" wells, but when making your wells stronger it shouldn't be too hard), so like this:

Spoiler:

And not like this:

Spoiler:

The same goes for the lines of the fling by the way. The size of all the lines of the fling should be around the same.
As a third point I want to bring up that the consistency of your stacks are of great importance. If you have to stack, try to stack the entire fling instead of a few wells of the fling (or whatever trick you're making). If you need to add some lines that don't add to the power of the well but makes your trick more consistent in stacking, then I'd recommend you to do so, so if you have a fling like this, make it like this (or preferably this).
I think that's all I wanted to say really. If you do these things (I know it's not always possible) your flings should look better and your tracks cleaner.
Thanks for reading and please tell me if I forgot something

P.S.: This is all my opinion, haters gonna hate.

A good example of all of these things is Valance.

Sheldon wrote:A good example of all of these things is Valence.

I'm confused, is it "Valance" or "Valence"?

I kind of agree, Raf. I don't mind "ugly" stacking, but do I prefer clean stacking.

Ugly stacking in beginner tracks is what I hate the most

Helios Pavonine wrote:Ugly stacking in beginner tracks is what I hate the most

If it's a "beginner" track, then it's made by a "beginner" and we wouldn't be commenting on what the wells look like in the first place.
There are a few times when I actually like stacking. Take painlobster for example. His tracks are stacked completely different from what's shown here, and it looks really good. So really It's not how far out the lines are from each other in my oppinion more as the consistancy.

yeah this almost applies to scenery in a way, if you want a very rough rugged look you put them on top of each other and angle the other line a little more. and if you want a clean look you leave a white space.

good job raf

I do like the spaced out stacks more but I don't think a "no-space" stack is a big deal. Cleanliness isn't usually something I would look for in a quirk. In fact it's quite the opposite, I think I like more messiness in a quirk. If I'm watching a track with weird wells and awkward flings, I want it to look effed up and crazy.

Raf, what would be better: a weak fling, or an "ugly" fling?

Depends really, I think one weak fling bothers me more than one ugly fling, but when a track is full of ugly flings I'm constantly bothered by the look of the track and when there are a lot of weak flings they bother me only at the moment of the flings. Or something.

I think we're taking this way too seriously.

a1c4s8 wrote:I think we're taking this way too seriously.

You just had to ruin the moment.

It was supposed to be Valence but Sotl messed up in editing. The track name is now a type of drapery.

I agree.

I'm going to make a stacking tut, because there's a way to get rid of touching/sloppy stacks easily that I've done many times, and it even makes it look more powerful

I'm sure some people do it, I'd just like to reveal it to those who might have not so that we don't see sloppiness complaints.

imo tracks shouldn't have to look pretty unless they're scenery tracks, quirks and shizz should be as messy as they wanna be

There's no harm in being cleaner.

Kramwood wrote:

Rafael wrote:Tip: If you have a stack with wells close to each other, try moving the weak(est) well(s) further away from the strong(est) one(s). It often has no effect to the strength of the well and works just fine.

If it's fine it's not powerful enough.

For your taste.

KillinTime2792 wrote:imo tracks shouldn't have to look pretty unless they're scenery tracks, quirks and shizz should be as messy as they wanna be

This. SO much.
I remember the whole discussion between Power and Style. We've all agreed on the fact that while stacked lines do increase power, this effect can easily be done with two seperated clean lines instead of 5 lines stacked close together.
And?

Let's talk about the style aspect of stacked lines. There's something about a well-executed messy track that just makes it so unique. You can't really replicate this, this, or this without stacked lines. It just won't be the same track. These three trackmakers, for instance, have a style which utilizes a LOT of stacked lines, and the tracks still look beautiful. Beautifully messy. The lines don't just add power. They also add style.

There's definitely some of you people who are hypocrites about this. In the discussion between Style and Power, a lot of people said that a balance of style and power is needed, but power should not be favored before style. "Messy" stacks don't just add to power, they add to the unique style of a track and generally the image of the track as a whole. Take away the stacks, and you take away the beauty of a track in its entirety. I'm sure that Cloud Nine would feel very different style-wise without stacked lines, even if it is the same track in the end.

Orthuss wrote:

KillinTime2792 wrote:imo tracks shouldn't have to look pretty unless they're scenery tracks, quirks and shizz should be as messy as they wanna be

This. SO much.
I remember the whole discussion between Power and Style. We've all agreed on the fact that while stacked lines do increase power, this effect can easily be done with two seperated clean lines instead of 5 lines stacked close together.
And?

Let's talk about the style aspect of stacked lines. There's something about a well-executed messy track that just makes it so unique. You can't really replicate this, this, or this without stacked lines. It just won't be the same track. These three trackmakers, for instance, have a style which utilizes a LOT of stacked lines, and the tracks still look beautiful. Beautifully messy. The lines don't just add power. They also add style.

There's definitely some of you people who are hypocrites about this. In the discussion between Style and Power, a lot of people said that a balance of style and power is needed, but power should not be favored before style. "Messy" stacks don't just add to power, they add to the unique style of a track and generally the image of the track as a whole. Take away the stacks, and you take away the beauty of a track in its entirety. I'm sure that Cloud Nine would feel very different style-wise without stacked lines, even if it is the same track in the end.

Fascinating. Naked tracks now have an artistic aspect! It's not just about the dance anymore, it's about the look!

^You sound surprised.

Orthuss wrote:

KillinTime2792 wrote:imo tracks shouldn't have to look pretty unless they're scenery tracks, quirks and shizz should be as messy as they wanna be

This. SO much.
I remember the whole discussion between Power and Style. We've all agreed on the fact that while stacked lines do increase power, this effect can easily be done with two seperated clean lines instead of 5 lines stacked close together.
And?

Let's talk about the style aspect of stacked lines. There's something about a well-executed messy track that just makes it so unique. You can't really replicate this, this, or this without stacked lines. It just won't be the same track. These three trackmakers, for instance, have a style which utilizes a LOT of stacked lines, and the tracks still look beautiful. Beautifully messy. The lines don't just add power. They also add style.

There's definitely some of you people who are hypocrites about this. In the discussion between Style and Power, a lot of people said that a balance of style and power is needed, but power should not be favored before style. "Messy" stacks don't just add to power, they add to the unique style of a track and generally the image of the track as a whole. Take away the stacks, and you take away the beauty of a track in its entirety. I'm sure that Cloud Nine would feel very different style-wise without stacked lines, even if it is the same track in the end.

I disagree. The stacks in Sahasrara don't really bother me, but that's because the track isn't very compact (yet slowpaced) and thus you can see everything pretty clearly. As for Origin and Topioca, IMO they'd be better without the stacks. Messiness is part of style indeed, but part of style doesn't always have to be a good thing . That's just my opinion of course, and there may be exceptions (to come), but in general, I like nicely stacked tracks much more than ugly ones.

I think all tracks look ghey like poop. /OCD

rabid squirrel wrote:Fascinating. Naked tracks now have an artistic aspect! It's not just about the dance anymore, it's about the look!

I always thought of naked tracks having an artistic aspect ._. I figured everyone did.

Lukking wouldn't be the same without his stacks... <3

Opal Rider wrote:

rabid squirrel wrote:Fascinating. Naked tracks now have an artistic aspect! It's not just about the dance anymore, it's about the look!

I always thought of naked tracks having an artistic aspect ._. I figured everyone did.

Nope, just you

rabid quirrel wrote:Fascinating. Naked tracks now have an artistic aspect! It's not just about the dance anymore, it's about the look!

Is that something new?