Hasta la Raiź - Apple

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Hasta la Raiź - Apple

Post by Apple on Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:40 pm



Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3cLYHM2uZY&feature=youtu.be

I'll be uploading a commentary video about this track soon. It has a slightly personal story that it tells and I may try to explain what I tried to do with that in the video. Tell me what you think! I tried a few new things in it including nice-ish scenery, and a lot of hard tricks incorporated into a very simple track otherwise.

I think the animation I used in it is starting to be overused by me. I put those little lines into everything and I think they might be losing their novelty at this point. Nonetheless, I put them in this as well. Any feedback on the entire track is welcome.
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Re: Hasta la Raiź - Apple

Post by Conundrumer on Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:49 am

The track was enjoyable to watch, and it's nice to actually see some scenery. However, it seems that, while the scenery maintains its theme, the track still feels wandering, like without narrative (most tracks are like this). I recognize the distinct sections, but haven't figured how they're related. But I only watched it once so far, and maybe I'll see something more on the second watch (kinda rushing this rn). I'm guessing the effect from black to white was a video edit.

@Apple wrote:I think the animation I used in it is starting to be overused by me. I put those little lines into everything and I think they might be losing their novelty at this point. Nonetheless, I put them in this as well.

You say this, but look at what we've been doing with gravity wells. I still see a lot of potential in this idea.

I'll watch it again and show it to some of my friends and make a follow up.

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Re: Hasta la Raiź - Apple

Post by Apple on Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:10 am

@Conundrumer wrote:The track was enjoyable to watch, and it's nice to actually see some scenery. However, it seems that, while the scenery maintains its theme, the track still feels wandering, like without narrative (most tracks are like this). I recognize the distinct sections, but haven't figured how they're related. But I only watched it once so far, and maybe I'll see something more on the second watch (kinda rushing this rn). I'm guessing the effect from black to white was a video edit.

@Apple wrote:I think the animation I used in it is starting to be overused by me. I put those little lines into everything and I think they might be losing their novelty at this point. Nonetheless, I put them in this as well.

You say this, but look at what we've been doing with gravity wells. I still see a lot of potential in this idea.

I'll watch it again and show it to some of my friends and make a follow up.

Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate when people take time and try to give constructive feedback. It definitely wanders at points but there are a few very purposeful moments which I will discuss after I get done with school tomorrow.

And the black to white was an edit, but I did a big cone of lines. Just spliced it when it was finished by recording day mode and night mode.
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Re: Hasta la Raiź - Apple

Post by SquidTheCat on Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:41 am

The scenery was so subtle that it fit into the track perfectly. I loved the colors at the beginning. Seeing the track in slightly different color makes a huge difference. 

While I did enjoy it a lot, I can say the animation is becoming too regular in your tracks. It's impressive, but overused.

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Re: Hasta la Raiź - Apple

Post by anton on Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:43 am

What I like about this track:
- the music (watched this during spanish class ahah)
- the experiments
- the chain section (you've gotten so incredibly better at them, its pretty lit fam)
- the scenery
- the syncs
- the color transition
- the color transition
- the integration
- the integration syncs
- the animation and the syncs in the animation part. I get what you're saying though, slightly overused by yourself
- this track feels very shua. yeah you changed your name, but in my heart you'll always be shua.
- the use of technical tricks, they're very well utilized


things i didn't like that much:
- the parts in relation to each other, as conun said, carries too much inconsistancy
- the choppy flatsled curves (this has an easy fix though, just treat flatsled like you would a chain, be sure you get the correct contact points)
- the animation part was a bit too long, and was too similar to that part in marble soda
- the scenery in the aria-inspired section was kind of hard to follow (like i didn't understand what I was looking at)
- the aria inspired part. Not original, not interesting, not impressive, slow.
- i think there was a golden oppertunity to mix the scenery and animation, but i won't hold that against you, as it would probably take far more time than what its worth
- the movement is not always as smooth as it could be
- the inconsistant chain/fling/things that redirect him (example 0:40 after the cannon)

Keep in mind most of this feedback is with regards to the execution of the track and doesn't necessarily comment on the more conceptual themes, ideas and whatnot. If there was a narrative, I didn't get it, but I am looking forward to the commentary - maybe it will shed light over some of the things I have missed.

I like this track alot, and I can easily see you becoming one of the more influential players of 2017, as you combine the best of both worlds. The best part about this track is just how "you" it feels. Easily the best OC around, if you ask me. I say the largest draw back are the small things like the choppy flatsled and inconsistancies.

Solid track, keep it up, very inspirational.




EDIT: Have watched this 5 or 7 times today. your best work to date by far imo


Last edited by Anton on Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Hasta la Raiź - Apple

Post by Sheldon on Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:38 am

Dat inverting color transition.
Dat bolted to the wall tree monument.
Overused animation is overused. (still want that dragon fly and the bee the track tho.)
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Re: Hasta la Raiź - Apple

Post by Rafael on Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:17 pm

I don't think you're overusing the animation thing. IMO it's just part of your style by now, and I like seeing you explore it more and more. The lines going offscreen and teleporting from side to side was new and enjoyable.

As for the rest, I don't see why the track started in dark grey and that distracted me through the first half. You probably have a reason, but it didn't come across. The transition was a relief. Not my favourite of yours, but interesting as always.
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Re: Hasta la Raiź - Apple

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:15 pm

My girlfriend and I were absolutely blown away when we watched this together. Easily the best track you've made, ever. Don't let that put any pressure on you to outperform it, each piece is unique.

Most of my critiques for the track have already been stated, but I will add that I can't see this track being even executable without the inconsistencies that litter the track. So, that's a flaw for sure. It doesn't make sense how the sections flow into each other, although to me that doesn't matter as much.
All that said, the sections were all so well done. The movement was mesmerizing and each conceptual element was perfectly placed. I loved the transition between color styles happening at the climax, that just made me laugh and larger. I am also so glad you've incorporated some of the limits of technique, it shows that there is purpose in everything we make and it fulfills that purpose.

The scenery was BREATHTAKING, however simple. I've never seen such well done fuzzy green work before, but I want more.

There has been some debate as to whether the animation you have grown accustomed to is overused. I don't disagree that you should try new things, I really wanna see something new, but every time I see this stuff in your tracks (the two lines playing with bosh) I smile like an idiot and enjoy it thoroughly, so don't kick a VERY gift horse in the mouth. You're unique. You stand out.

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Re: Hasta la Raiź - Apple

Post by Helios Pavonine on Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:41 pm

This is your most enjoyable track, imo. It's full of vigor and fun.

Stuff I think is brilliant:
- The color transition
- The lines coming in from the sides
- That thing at 0:29 - like the look of it and how Bosh moves
- The 'character' you give the little animation lines.. amazing

Stuff I like:
- The scenery dotted around, made the track a lot lighter
- 0:58 - 1:02. I like how the lines wave

Stuff I think can be improved upon:
- Consistency and technique. The first part is pretty inconsistent aesthetically. And sometimes Bosh moves awkwardly like at 0:40
- The song. So you can't change the song but for me the song isn't as pronounced as the track. There isn't a lot of distinction between sections in the song. still fun tho
- Scenery. Specifically the last part. I think it's strangely placed next to the unscened parts of the track and it's not particularly good or meaningful (2:53 e.g.)
- Structure. I've never seen the change from black to white before so I think that's cool but the rest is quite random.

Overall I think I like it as much as I do because production-wise, it's a big improvement from your earlier work. Feels less like a do-whatever track. If you work on your technique a little (smooth manuals, flatsled, etc) and plan out your ideas a bit better there's potential for a masterpiece Smile

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Re: Hasta la Raiź - Apple

Post by anton on Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:30 am

ok so i rewatched specifically the animation part - and what I am about to say might be totally removed from reality, as I build my case on very little evidence, but here goes.

So. There are two lines.
The first one is just playing around by itself for some time, chillin' and interacting with bosh, and it is clearly not his first time around, he works like a pro
The second line enters, and the first one stops playing around
the first line is somewhat caught off guard
They start dancing around - a form of non verbal communication. What are they saying to each other? will get back to.
the first line steps aside and lets the second have a go.
The 2nd line seem somewhat reluctant, the moments before its first interaction with bosh.
1st line is observing carefully.
2nd line interacts with bosh
and does a little dance to celebrate its first successfull interaction with bosh.
I think the dance they did earlier might have been the 1st line trying to convince the 2nd line to try something new; interact with bosh.
1st line is still around, observing
2nd line is growing comfortable and starts experimenting with interactions that aren't limited to kramuals.
1st line cuts in, and the sequence ends.

I am seeing a line teaching another line how to interact with bosh. A story I feel might reflect Shua's current efforts to make technical techniques more accessible through his tutorials. But who knows. Maybe shua was just fucking around and maybe I am just talking out of my ass.

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Re: Hasta la Raiź - Apple

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:09 pm

It's up to him to tell us^
I like that analysis. About what I saw.

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Re: Hasta la Raiź - Apple

Post by Apple on Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:00 pm

I think it will be a bit easier to explain it in a block of text. I'll do some commentary about it at some point, but it's hard to find time alone to record things right now. It'll be easier next week so hopefully I can do it then.

This will probably be very long. Be warned. It's probably going to be a lot of rambling as well, so if you don't read it that's totally fine.

TL;DR: It's about depression and getting out of it. It is based off of a true story of someone I am very close to. The whole thing is a representation of their mental state since the whole ordeal started 11 years ago.

Section One

This section goes from the beginning up until the singularity and the big loops. From 0:00 to around 1:35.

The reason it starts in night mode is because depression isn't exactly a light subject. It wasn't my favorite look for this part, and I think the track looks better all normal colored, but it was a lot less about the track than it was about the feelings I was trying to convey.

I tried to make this part pretty mellow. Medium speed and not a lot of intense tricks is meant to convey a dark calm. This calm is supposed to represent the beginning of depression for most people who get it bad at a really young age. It feels cool that you don't really feel emotions anymore. It kind of feels like a superpower in a way. And if you don't understand what is happening, that aspect of it can be kind of nice. Of course, the other parts of depression aren't. An ongoing traumatic event that you are too young to understand leads to (in this case) crippling anxiety, panic attacks, and wanting to kill yourself leading to not having many friends leading to people bullying you from elementary school to 10th grade leading to crippling anxiety and panic attacks and wanting to kill yourself. Those parts aren't good. At the age of 11, all of that is pretty intense and takes a really bad toll on your mental health. But your newfound "superpower" blocks all of that, or at least makes you think it pushes it all back. So you think it's good that you can't feel sadness because if you could, you would be really sad. But that also means you can't feel happiness and that's not good at all. Getting slightly off track...

So yeah. This is supposed to represent the part of depression (at a young age) where the person doesn't know what is happening but they kind of know it's bad and it probably shouldn't be happening. The next subsection of this is the gravity wells and the super long chains. This part to me represents the separation of this person's family. Kind of cheesy, but whatever. This is supposed to feel more isolated, but it's also supposed to have the same feel as the first section by being smooth and dark. The same traumatic experience, but the only people that made it okay are gone now. Then the music syncing part comes up and that is supposed to represent when crap went from 30˚ or 40˚ slope to a full blown 90˚ slope of bad. And the little bit of free falling after the syncs was the calm after this person was finally taken from the bad situation and before being thrown back into a still bad situation.

Also, the little bits of scenery were just meant to represent nice things. But it didn't matter at that point if nice things were happening because they were already in a bad mental state and good things wouldn't feel good. They wouldn't feel anything. So that's why there is sporadic scenery in the beginning.

Section Two

The high pressure circles section is the years after finding out how bad it had gotten up to that point; the time where you finally grow up and start understanding the situation for better or for worse. The first section chronicles the first 3 years of this story and gets the ball rolling for the worst of the depression and everything else. This is why the second section is higher pressured than the other parts. This is the absolute worst part of the depression. The kramual slope marks the beginning of the worst of the worst which happened about 2 years ago. In this time, The situation was so bad that I would almost always have a phone number in my pocket for someone that could help if this person threatened to commit suicide and there were times that I thought that no matter what I did, they may just do it anyways. Thankfully, it never came to that, but I know it did come close a few times. So this kramual slope is supposed to represent the most pressure that this person had on them ever. It represents a really sad time of about a year and a half. And then it pops out and this is when things start looking up. The first therapist ever to actually help starts seeing them (this would be number 4 or 5). Seeing him made them feel slightly better but at the end of the day, this person still couldn't feel. The therapist helped them understand what chemically was happening to them, and eventually convinced them that they need medicine (something that was recommended years and years ago but due to the situation, couldn't be done). And that would be the next part which is obviously the color change and animation.

So this section was purely about pressure. It was supposed to represent the worst part of the depression and this is also why I chose to use the high pressure tricks in this part, the singularities and such.

Section 3

This section goes until the singularity at the end sends him into the slow scened part.

The color switch is when the medicine finally starts kicking in and the side effects of increasing the dosage so many times finally faded after three or four months. These were some of the best days I have ever had. Seeing this person finally start to realise that they are a person and they have their own personality and can be happy if happy things happen and sad when sad things happen. It was beautiful seeing this transformation, let me tell you.

Anton, you were very very close to getting the animation thing right, but it wasn't about the lines. It was about me and the other person. These last years, I was the only one that could feel and when this person could finally feel for the first time since they were 10, it was rather exciting. And put yourself in that scenario. After not feeling anything for so long, everything made them happy or sad! They didn't have a neutral middle ground for a time.. They just got super giddy and would run around and be crazy because they could feel! So yeah, the first line that shows up isn't teaching the second line, it is merely the observer and happy for the other. If you follow them closely, the first one is the one watching from a distance. That would be me. I know what it's like to feel and they didn't so they just kinda went crazy and that's how I chose to represent that part of the story. Them just loving the newfound superpower. The exact opposite of the superpower discovered so long ago. That's why I am watching from a distance just being happy for them. Then their line flies off and goes to look for other things that make them feel, and I just stop the animation for the next section.

Section 4

This section is pretty simple. The boring track that is below the scenery represents everyday life. Nothing exciting happening. Just normal days. The scenery on top represents this person's newfound view of the world. Even though nothing exciting was happening, it was still a good day. That's why the track is boring and repetitive. Life can be boring and repetitive, but it is also what we make of it. This person after so long, finally found a reason to live and that is beautiful (unlike my scenery).

The big tree thing has roots running through the scened section. That is simply referencing the song title and name of the track that translates to "To the Roots."

The last part is the kramual into the long manual and that is where things stand right now. They are how things should have been. Normal, and nice. When something bad happens, you can feel sad. When something nice happens, you can feel happy. Depression isn't holding them down anymore. They may not still be in the super giddy all the time because I haven't felt before mode, but things are still lovely and are still looking up.

Other Comments

I hope that made at least some sense. It took a while to write and I don't know how much of it is follow-able. If you have any questions about any of it, please ask. I can explain anything. And if you want to know more about the story, skype me or something. I'm okay talking about it, just not completely open on the internet...

Thank you for reading if you did. Sorry it was so long! Stay tuned for some more commentary about it later.
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Re: Hasta la Raiź - Apple

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:11 am

^That was beautiful.

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