The 8th Wonder ~Chuggers

manuals are soooo hard




thanks to opal for letting me into my zone

DAMN SON.
Them rolls are legenfrickingdary.

Opal confirmed for ☐ Not REKT REKT

:rabid: :rabid: :rabid: :rabid:

So, uh. Does this mean we can play Castle Crashers with Josh now?

great track i love it

That was pretty good..... yeah, something like that.

That word "humbly" made me laugh a little once the rest of the track played.
The flips were really wicked, but they kind of distracted my attention from the manuals. However, I am really impressed to see you actually making a heavy manual track finally! Hopefully this will get you to experiment with using them a little more in your future projects, as I think you have a really solid foundation here and can take this to the next level.

shit nigga

Well mang. You totes done good. I really can't think of anything to say.

I wanna see more chuggers.

Okay so first, this is awesome to see /shotsfired in track form, haven't seen a good head-to-head like this in years!

Second, loved seeing some manual lilys in there, I remember you saying you didn't think you could do that This track really pushed you to grow and that was super cool to see.

Third, props to balancing those high speed manuals for whole curves. I know that's not easy and you did a great job.

Fourth, I love watching quirkers make manuals, because they are always creative, and if they can't do something they know how to cover it up and make it look good anyway. That's one thing I have to hand to you - you make everything you do look good.

Okay, now I want to talk about the integration and related shenanigans. A lot of stuff in this track is questionable and by that I mean I can't tell if its lazy or creative, and it's probably both haha. That thing at 1:00 was cool but the green lines IMO made it kind of confusing to watch (which maybe was your intention) and then the "barrel roll" after it looks pretty lazy but then you follow it with a massive nose loop so maybe that makes up for it. On the other hand, the thing at 1:05 looked totally kickass in action, though in slomo I can tell you were kind of making it up as you went.

I am kind of confused about what the thing at 1:11 was at all, though most of this stuff does look cool when it goes by at lightspeed. The integration in this next section looks pretty cool but I think it would look better with some more control over the rotation (like gao did in There is So Much) It's also pretty clear (upon examination) that much of this integration is you trying and failing to make tail manuals because you realized there haven't been any so far in the track while there had been plenty of nose manuals (tip, I think most of your tailies are tipped too far back - that second peg can significantly higher off the ground and the tail manual will work much more easily. I struggled with this too in archaeology) and then again at 1:16 I have conflicted feelings about those green lines.

On the other hand, 1:18 is IMO an awesome use of green lines because the rotation is nice and smooth so it looks good at full speed. I think this stuff looks good when it feels like Bosh is interacting with the line, and it's less good when you're trying to cover up things that might not be manuals and make them look like manuals, lol. (this review is turning into a massive ICWUTUDIDTHAR lol)

Mixed feeling at about head riding at 0:21, I very much prefer barrel rolls and I felt like you didn't have enough of those (consecutive barrel rolls look super cool and aren't that hard) and then I see that total fail at a nose manual after that bit haha. But yay first actually balanced tail manual! But then I see a lot of sloppily balanced manuals after that of all kinds.

Do you know that with highspeed manuals, it's best to do them frame by frame? I see you adding lines of "whatever" length - instead of the center of each manual line affecting bosh it's like any part of the line might affect him, and this results in inconsistencies in angle and rotation and makes it harder for you to balance stuff. try making manual lines like you make gravity wells except connect them all, and I think you'll find that it's much easier. When I made the ending of Sempiternal I actually made long manual lines that connected, and the drew shorter ones over them and erased the long ones. (when I first started) but as you can see I made the long lines frame-by-frame and bosh hits the center of every line.

Kramual is excellent, flatsled hand fling Cheetah-style is also excellent, but you should have milked them more because they go by in a flash and we don't see them (the best part about the cheetah bit was the length) Same thing for that shoulder pinch with opposite side nose stabilizers. But that flatsled frame-spin slowdown at 1:28? IMO that screams "this is the only thing I can think of to slow him down" though it may have been intentional I just think it looks ugly. (I'm pretty sure opal would never use that trick haha) The roll that follows it at 1:29... it was cool but I was wondering if the line below him was superficial. Like, there's some great barrel rolling but I think barrel rolls look best in the style of Goliath by ClosedDoor, without the aid of gravity or tumbling wells - it just makes the rotation looks smoother and cleaner and more consistent (in my opinion)

The upward stuff was great and then the nose manual at 1:50 was probably the best balanced of the whole track. And THEN the ending was awesome. the super fast roll-stop was great and then holy crap I didn't know you could make manuals that smooth. Maybe it was just the contrast but those manuals felt so slow and smooth and even the gravity wells felt slow and smooth. I wish this ending section was longer than 2.5 manuals because it would have been the ultimate #shotsfired to have an actually substantial smooth section to beat opal at his own game as well as with the highspeed factor.

Overall, I was pretty critical in this review (partly because of you trash talking opal ) but this track was pretty beast. The epic factor was great, and I am impressed with your nose manuals, and your creativity is wonderful. I am honestly super excited to see what you do next. I honestly couldn't pick between these two tracks so even though opal technically GMV, in my mind you were total equals in different ways - plus, you're way better at quirk than he is. Don't worry chugs, you're still basically the best.

rabid squirrel wrote:Okay so first, this is awesome to see /shotsfired in track form, haven't seen a good head-to-head like this in years!

Second, loved seeing some manual lilys in there, I remember you saying you didn't think you could do that This track really pushed you to grow and that was super cool to see.

Third, props to balancing those high speed manuals for whole curves. I know that's not easy and you did a great job.

Fourth, I love watching quirkers make manuals, because they are always creative, and if they can't do something they know how to cover it up and make it look good anyway. That's one thing I have to hand to you - you make everything you do look good.

thank ye

rabbit wrote:Okay, now I want to talk about the integration and related shenanigans. A lot of stuff in this track is questionable and by that I mean I can't tell if its lazy or creative, and it's probably both haha. That thing at 1:00 was cool but the green lines IMO made it kind of confusing to watch (which maybe was your intention) and then the "barrel roll" after it looks pretty lazy but then you follow it with a massive nose loop so maybe that makes up for it. On the other hand, the thing at 1:05 looked totally kickass in action, though in slomo I can tell you were kind of making it up as you went.

The green line thing was more of an experimental thing that I tried out at points in the track, i treated the circular front portion of the sled as a solid thing and tried to give an unbound "line hanging" feel, its really only at the 1:00 mark because at the other parts it got pretty scrunched up and admittedly unfitting.  The second half of the lily was definitely on the spot

rebid wrote:I am kind of confused about what the thing at 1:11 was at all, though most of this stuff does look cool when it goes by at lightspeed. The integration in this next section looks pretty cool but I think it would look better with some more control over the rotation (like gao did in There is So Much) It's also pretty clear (upon examination) that much of this integration is you trying and failing to make tail manuals because you realized there haven't been any so far in the track while there had been plenty of nose manuals (tip, I think most of your tailies are tipped too far back - that second peg can significantly higher off the ground and the tail manual will work much more easily. I struggled with this too in archaeology) and then again at 1:16 I have conflicted feelings about those green lines.

I agree, the tube was a huge mistake haha, I wish I had either made it longer or not at all.  The roll wasn't inspired by my failing tail manuals, as seen by the opposite direction of red lines, I was trying to keep the same amount of rotation throughout the catch and landing area.  The green lines at 1:16 is another point where I treated the ball end as a solid object, though it is harder to see in full speed.

rubber squid wrote:On the other hand, 1:18 is IMO an awesome use of green lines because the rotation is nice and smooth so it looks good at full speed. I think this stuff looks good when it feels like Bosh is interacting with the line, and it's less good when you're trying to cover up things that might not be manuals and make them look like manuals, lol. (this review is turning into a massive ICWUTUDIDTHAR lol)

Mixed feeling at about head riding at 0:21, I very much prefer barrel rolls and I felt like you didn't have enough of those (consecutive barrel rolls look super cool and aren't that hard) and then I see that total fail at a nose manual after that bit haha. But yay first actually balanced tail manual! But then I see a lot of sloppily balanced manuals after that of all kinds.

If you took a protractor to the whole tail manual, it'd be the same angle every frame with and accuracy of like +- a degree or so, I even have a split save with the tail manual extended with the same accuracy.  The head riding was inexcusable laziness.  After the tail I was doing a bit of rolling so disregard any non balanced manuals, they were part of the roll.

random skunk wrote:Do you know that with highspeed manuals, it's best to do them frame by frame? I see you adding lines of "whatever" length - instead of the center of each manual line affecting bosh it's like any part of the line might affect him, and this results in inconsistencies in angle and rotation and makes it harder for you to balance stuff. try making manual lines like you make gravity wells except connect them all, and I think you'll find that it's much easier. When I made the ending of Sempiternal I actually made long manual lines that connected, and the drew shorter ones over them and erased the long ones. (when I first started) but as you can see I made the long lines frame-by-frame and bosh hits the center of every line.

This was my bad, got kinda lazy over the whole track, will make notice next track.

ribbon rascal wrote:Kramual is excellent, flatsled hand fling Cheetah-style is also excellent, but you should have milked them more because they go by in a flash and we don't see them (the best part about the cheetah bit was the length) Same thing for that shoulder pinch with opposite side nose stabilizers. But that flatsled frame-spin slowdown at 1:28? IMO that screams "this is the only thing I can think of to slow him down" though it may have been intentional I just think it looks ugly. (I'm pretty sure opal would never use that trick haha) The roll that follows it at 1:29... it was cool but I was wondering if the line below him was superficial. Like, there's some great barrel rolling but I think barrel rolls look best in the style of Goliath by ClosedDoor, without the aid of gravity or tumbling wells - it just makes the rotation looks smoother and cleaner and more consistent (in my opinion)

Do you mean 1:38 instead of 1:28 because I think you do but I'm not sure, I'll base it off of 1:38
The frame spin was to give him some rotation opposite to what he had currently been going at, the tumbling was because I didn't want a concave curve as it wouldn't have fit the blast to the right that was currently ensuing.

radiated swirl wrote:The upward stuff was great and then the nose manual at 1:50 was probably the best balanced of the whole track. And THEN the ending was awesome. the super fast roll-stop was great and then holy crap I didn't know you could make manuals that smooth. Maybe it was just the contrast but those manuals felt so slow and smooth and even the gravity wells felt slow and smooth. I wish this ending section was longer than 2.5 manuals because it would have been the ultimate #shotsfired to have an actually substantial smooth section to beat opal at his own game as well as with the highspeed factor.

I thought the ending of that manual was probably the least balanced of all the manuals in the track imo, I wish I wasn't bound by music syncs so I could have made the ending longer, as it was my favorite part out of everything as well.

ȑ͙͍̺̮̼͉̹̒̑̋̒̔̆̒̏ͫ͆̊̇ͯͦ͂͛̀͠a̵̴͉̳̝̤͇̟͍̲͈͙͕͌͗̈́̉͂́b̵̷͕͈̣͖͕͚̬̻̖͔̟͓̘̩̣̘̊͒͆͌̅̐ͪͩ̋͊͊ͪ͠i̛̤̭̖̠͆͋ͯ̃̾ͨ̋͒̀͢d̵̫̰͔͈̊͂͑̓̏̂͐̑̈́̐͑̈͑ͭ̃̕͘ wrote:Overall, I was pretty critical in this review (partly because of you trash talking opal ) but this track was pretty beast. The epic factor was great, and I am impressed with your nose manuals, and your creativity is wonderful. I am honestly super excited to see what you do next. I honestly couldn't pick between these two tracks so even though opal technically GMV, in my mind you were total equals in different ways - plus, you're way better at quirk than he is. Don't worry chugs, you're still basically the best.

Sorry for any mean things I've said before, I was a little hype and out of my normal habits.



Opal, wanna collab?

^opal you cannot say no as long as chuggers still plays

I feel like you somehow managed to capture the essence of quirk, yet in a manual track.
This is gonna be the most apples-to-oranges battle ever.

http://www.kanyezone.com/

I lol'd @ chugs' names for me

Chuggers wrote:The roll wasn't inspired by my failing tail manuals, as seen by the opposite direction of red lines, I was trying to keep the same amount of rotation throughout the catch and landing area.

Chuggers wrote:After the tail I was doing a bit of rolling so disregard any non balanced manuals, they were part of the roll.

Chuggers wrote:If you took a protractor to the whole tail manual, it'd be the same angle every frame with and accuracy of like +- a degree or so, I even have a split save with the tail manual extended with the same accuracy.

Ah, gotcha. I am guilty of seeing unbalanced tail manuals where they didn't exist. In this case, suggestion: make more tail manuals so I don't think that you're trying to make them and get confused

Chuggers wrote:The green lines at 1:16 is another point where I treated the ball end as a solid object, though it is harder to see in full speed.

Yeah, I think it looks cooler without connecting lines like you did earlier

Chuggers wrote:Do you mean 1:38 instead of 1:28 because I think you do but I'm not sure, I'll base it off of 1:38

whoops yeah srry

Chuggers wrote:Sorry for any mean things I've said before, I was a little hype and out of my normal habits.

np <3
(but seriously I've been through worse haha)

Chuggers wrote:Opal, wanna collab?

^^^^^^^^

roflmaoqwerty wrote:http://www.kanyezone.com/

DYING

I must admit I find it amusing to see a trackmaker as skilled as you struggle with manuals. Awesome track dude!

So this track demonstrated that the smoothest manuals are not manuals at all, just green line illusion. It works, and I think it's awesome.
It's probably not a new thing but I just wanted to say that because the tail rolls were done well.

Chuggers wrote:

Opal, wanna collab?

I could totally see us doing some sort of modern version of Bipolar.

Conundrumer wrote:So this track demonstrated that the smoothest manuals are not manuals at all, just green line illusion. It works, and I think it's awesome.
It's probably not a new thing but I just wanted to say that because the tail rolls were done well.

Gao did it better recently in There Is So Much
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8tY3DgJqI4#t=01m45s
without using green lines at all

first green lines use was flashkick by georgio_jc (4 years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJg7RADV62A#t=01m46s

first full on fake manual (more so than these) was by WTB in a groove clan track, shimmy (3.5 years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4LiTvpbPz4#t=02m45s

Opal Rider wrote:

Chuggers wrote:Opal, wanna collab?

I could totally see us doing some sort of modern version of Bipolar.

oh hell yes