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I Propose... (R.E. Elites)

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Opal Rider
CamQuartr
Purtle
Lankher
Sssschiller
rabid squirrel
Kohuda
Inukaza
Cereal
efrazable
Hedgehogs4Me
TheRevTastic
ACwazHere
RyderLR
Binglinerider
Traxis
Pinter
Rafael
WishLine
23 posters

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Post by WishLine Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:03 pm

Nothing gets people talking like controversial feedback suggestions.

Personally, it seems that the rank of Elite rider is a little...err...permanent. Once you have it, you're highly unlikely to lose it. Am I right? Who was last demoted from Elite for inactivity or misbehaviour?

I would look to see a far more fluid and dynamic rank where the only way to keep being Elite is to hit all the criteria, and sustain that level of activity - on the public, viewable forums or risk demotion. This would make Elite easier to lose, but also regain.

This would encourage Elites to contribute to the forum where members and guests can see them, and encourage members too in the hope of becoming an Elite themselves.

The permanent ranks should be of course Retired Staff and Line Rider Legend, which are more sort of 'once a ____, always a ____'. It seems strange to let the same hold for being elite. If you become a coloured name, through activity and loving to contribute to the site, why should that stop when you become one?

I would also consider extending the principle to moderators.

What does everybody think of this? I'm looking for feedback from absolutely everybody, including the Elites who may feel I'm attacking them. I hope I'm not being interpreted in that way, I'm just voicing my thoughts on how to encourage more contributions.

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Post by Rafael Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:28 pm

I 100% agree actually... I guess none of the elites actually cares about it but I agree that Elite shouldn't be a permanent rank.
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Post by Pinter Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:07 pm

I agree with you. Elite has to be forever if you will post forever, and if you won't post forever it has not to be permanent.

WishLine wrote:
I would also consider extending the principle to moderators.

About this, Moderator is not forever, if you quit you become retired staff if I'm right.
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Post by Traxis Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:16 pm

Admins realize they're inactive and retire. Some mods do the same. Elites just sit there and enjoy that they have a coloured name. I think part of it is that if a mod or admin retires, they get retired staff, still a rank, shows they've done something. An elite would become a normal member and would recieve no gratitude for his past work.
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Post by Pinter Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:48 pm

@ Traxis, then maybe we should make an rank for ex-elite..
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Post by WishLine Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:05 pm

Strangely, perhaps, I don't agree. I imagine it'd be quite a hassle and mean even more coloured names. Plus, it seems a weird precedent to set. A rank for people who once were active and now aren't?

I think it should just be a straight demotion and a perfectly doable re-promotion if they get stuck in again.

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Post by Binglinerider Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:11 pm

As I see it, nothing really needs to change, but maybe that's because I'm old school. Elite is a rank you earn by becoming a well contributing member of the forum.
Just becoming less active i see is no reason just for the rank to be taken away from you. (Leaving the community all together is another story though). The only way you can lose the rank is if you ask to be removed from the group or break the rules/act dumb/etc. Becoming less active doesn't mean you're no longer an elite. You still contain the skills that got you to that point so I see no reason for demotion.

If we keep changing who is and isnt an elite rider I see 2 things happening:
1. The elite riders we already have show potential to be future mods/admins. They have already showed that they are beneficial to the site. If they keep working hard, the staff will call upon that member to help run the site. If elite is the highest rank they wanted and they begin the slack off, so be it. This is noticed and they aren't selected to be future mods/admins. no harm no foul. If we keep changing them, we can never really instill our "trust" into that one member.

2. The rank will mean less. Back in the day, everyone wanted to be an elite rider. The forums were active and everyone was contributing. I've seen so many nominations and everyone was competing to have elite status. Then power rider came in. Those were the future elites. soon stuff got out of hand/member left/etc. and ranks didnt mean that much so power rider was gone. Then all the hacking bs that pretty much killed the community left us with this site and a fraction of the members who still cared. iirc we basically got rid of a bunch of elites who left or who didn't really contribute anymore and started brand new. If we just keep floating people in and out of the rank, it will lose what value it has left.

That's how i see it



wow, i haven't posted that big of a response in years....also haven't been that mature in a while either soooooooo ac is a poophead

tl;dr read it :|
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Post by RyderLR Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:18 pm

I agree with the statement above.
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Post by Pinter Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:27 pm

I also agree with bing
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Post by WishLine Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:31 pm

Binglinerider wrote:As I see it, nothing really needs to change, but maybe that's because I'm old school. Elite is a rank you earn by becoming a well contributing member of the forum.
Just becoming less active i see is no reason just for the rank to be taken away from you. (Leaving the community all together is another story though). The only way you can lose the rank is if you ask to be removed from the group or break the rules/act dumb/etc. Becoming less active doesn't mean you're no longer an elite. You still contain the skills that got you to that point so I see no reason for demotion.

Okay...well, imagine a scenario where you have tonnes of Elite-worthy grey members whom the staff don't want to promote because it will create too many Elites on a site of this current size (assuming some of these elites aren't active). Surely the best option is to demote the inactive elites in favour of the active greys.

If we keep changing who is and isnt an elite rider I see 2 things happening:
1. The elite riders we already have show potential to be future mods/admins. They have already showed that they are beneficial to the site. If they keep working hard, the staff will call upon that member to help run the site. If elite is the highest rank they wanted and they begin the slack off, so be it. This is noticed and they aren't selected to be future mods/admins. no harm no foul. If we keep changing them, we can never really instill our "trust" into that one member.

I would argue that if people are likely to be mod/admin material, they are unlikely to lose their rank through inactivity anyway.

2. The rank will mean less. Back in the day, everyone wanted to be an elite rider. The forums were active and everyone was contributing. I've seen so many nominations and everyone was competing to have elite status. Then power rider came in. Those were the future elites. soon stuff got out of hand/member left/etc. and ranks didnt mean that much so power rider was gone. Then all the hacking bs that pretty much killed the community left us with this site and a fraction of the members who still cared. iirc we basically got rid of a bunch of elites who left or who didn't really contribute anymore and started brand new. If we just keep floating people in and out of the rank, it will lose what value it has left.

I see what you mean, but as things stand the rank appears so set in stone as to be unattainable. It feels as if the Elite Quota is filled for this size of forum, so nobody is going anywhere. This is particularly true if Elites don't lose their status, right?

That's how i see it

And how I see it is blue :P

wow, i haven't posted that big of a response in years....also haven't been that mature in a while either soooooooo ac is a poophead

Ha, I'm making Bing think and type long replies. Whoa! :P

tl;dr read it :|
[b]

WishLine
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Post by Binglinerider Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:43 pm

WishLine wrote:
Binglinerider wrote:As I see it, nothing really needs to change, but maybe that's because I'm old school. Elite is a rank you earn by becoming a well contributing member of the forum.
Just becoming less active i see is no reason just for the rank to be taken away from you. (Leaving the community all together is another story though). The only way you can lose the rank is if you ask to be removed from the group or break the rules/act dumb/etc. Becoming less active doesn't mean you're no longer an elite. You still contain the skills that got you to that point so I see no reason for demotion.

Okay...well, imagine a scenario where you have tonnes of Elite-worthy grey members whom the staff don't want to promote because it will create too many Elites on a site of this current size (assuming some of these elites aren't active). Surely the best option is to demote the inactive elites in favour of the active greys.

If this were the old irtl, you would have a point. Bu you still have to remember that we are only a tiny fraction of the size we used to be. If we make every contributing member elite, rank loses value. We take the best of the best. Trust me, elite nomination thread is pretty active.

If we keep changing who is and isnt an elite rider I see 2 things happening:
1. The elite riders we already have show potential to be future mods/admins. They have already showed that they are beneficial to the site. If they keep working hard, the staff will call upon that member to help run the site. If elite is the highest rank they wanted and they begin the slack off, so be it. This is noticed and they aren't selected to be future mods/admins. no harm no foul. If we keep changing them, we can never really instill our "trust" into that one member.

I would argue that if people are likely to be mod/admin material, they are unlikely to lose their rank through inactivity anyway.

We also have active members that aren't mod/admin material

2. The rank will mean less. Back in the day, everyone wanted to be an elite rider. The forums were active and everyone was contributing. I've seen so many nominations and everyone was competing to have elite status. Then power rider came in. Those were the future elites. soon stuff got out of hand/member left/etc. and ranks didnt mean that much so power rider was gone. Then all the hacking bs that pretty much killed the community left us with this site and a fraction of the members who still cared. iirc we basically got rid of a bunch of elites who left or who didn't really contribute anymore and started brand new. If we just keep floating people in and out of the rank, it will lose what value it has left.

I see what you mean, but as things stand the rank appears so set in stone as to be unattainable. It feels as if the Elite Quota is filled for this size of forum, so nobody is going anywhere. This is particularly true if Elites don't lose their status, right?

Not so true. Example: Wolf Spirit. He did what he needed to do and shot up the ranks. Also refer to my first red statement

That's how i see it

And how I see it is blue :P

And how I see your reply is in red 8D

wow, i haven't posted that big of a response in years....also haven't been that mature in a while either soooooooo ac is a poophead

Ha, I'm making Bing think and type long replies. Whoa! :P

Jerk :|
although it did feel good to express my opinion about the site again xD


tl;dr read it :|
[b]
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Post by ACwazHere Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:58 pm

Yeah, Bing brings up some good points. Especially that I am a poophead.

I think the most important thing to consider is that there just isn't much to be done anymore. Back in the day, Elites were very valuable because they pretty much managed the Contests section (including the Contest Submission forum, which I believe was also opened up to Power Riders), did Movie of the Week grading, managed LaotW, and so on. They were people that the new members would respect, look up to, and listen to if no staff were around.

There were >50 members online at a time, and many of them were new, thus also more prone to break the rules. There was more than a hundred new threads daily, so the staff couldn't get to all of them. However, we were always comfortable, because we knew that the Elites would keep them civil and report posts as needed. They reported more posts than all of the gray members combined. They'd PM me or message me on MSN if somebody did something really wrong in the SB or in a thread, and I wouldn't need to even think before taking action, because I knew they were given the rank for being trustworthy and showing good judgement. I could go on and on. Wow I'm so sad/sentimental saying all this, lol. I miss it so much But my point is, during this time, Elites NEEDED to be active, for the staff couldn't do it all. There were many, many grays that would do a good job as Elite that could replace the inactive people. Therefore, Elites treated their rank as a duty as well as a privilege (and it was awesome). We have never liked having a small or huge amount of Elites.

Today, ALL of our members are awesome. We just post tracks and talk and say nice things to each other and take baths together and stuff. The only person that ever gets banned is Lankher (lmao sorry bro <3), there's a manageable amount of daily threads/posts, there's no more contest submissions, no more MotW grading, etc. We're a smaller, more faithful community. The entire staff could go on vacation at the same time, and we would come back to find everything just as civil as before. Elites no longer have this large responsibility like I described above. It is more like a token of appreciation: "Hey buddy, you're one of the best members we have. Thanks, and keep it up." They're expected to give their input in the big threads and to just be active, but that is all. But really, just like I said above, all the Elites could go on vacation at the same time, and the site would be in perfect order when they got back. That is why we have loosened up so much: because the people that are on this site are the ones that truly love the community and the game.


So, to really address your post, Wish:
Look at the list of Elites. I can look at it and say confidently that Bing likes men and that 11 out of 11 of them are active. There are some veterans in that list, such as Ktk and Kohuded, about whom I think it would be a sin if they lost their ranks for any reason. There are two new Elites: Chui Ninji and Sssschiller, who are active, bright, and contribute a fair amount. If there are great members that we want to see Elite, we will discuss them. The Elite rank is NOT by any means unattainable, and I wouldn't say it is "permanent". But unless these veterans just leave forever, we'll let them keep their rank, because they were the best members back when IRTL was huge. This will not keep us from promoting new Elites.

+Don't think I'm trying to shut you down. I really like this thread, and it's a great one for current elites/aspiring grays to read.

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Post by Binglinerider Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:05 pm

^ That is why he is admin and i'm retired. So much more detail/explanation than mine <3

Yeah wish, im also not really trying to shut you down either. I'm glad you're still pumping out ideas for the site

ACisnub wrote: Wow I'm so sad/sentimental saying all this, lol. I miss it so much

i died a little ;_;


Last edited by Binglinerider on Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by TheRevTastic Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:05 pm

^@AC Absox isn't active....... poopface butthole


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Post by Hedgehogs4Me Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:06 pm

Anyone ever heard of the candle problem?
It goes like this: You're given a candle, a cardboard bin of tacks, and a a box of matches, and you have to support the candle above the table.
The only solution that really works is to take the tacks out of the bin, tack the bin that the tacks came in up onto the wall, and put the candle in it. That is, it's a situation that can be easily reproduced where you have to think outside the box (although literally it's inside the box :P) to solve it.

Now, they take two groups, and tell one that, if they get the best time, they'll get a certain amount of money. They tell the second group that they're just being timed to establish norms.

The second group kicked the first group's BUTT.

Now, let's apply this to elites.
You tell one group of elites that they have to contribute a certain amount, or they'll be demoted. These poor semi-inactive-ish elites panic and start looking for ways to contribute, but, as a result, everyone dies and then an atom bomb explodes over their dead bodies.

You tell the other group of elites that they're awesome. You have our current situation.

Just thought I'd put it out there, that's all. Smile
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Post by ACwazHere Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:13 pm

TheRevTastic wrote:^ Absox isn't active....... poopface butthole

Hmm you're right, he only posts in the Elite lounge actually. XD But he's busy with school so it's excusable.

Yeah Bing the tears almost welled in me eyes.
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Post by WishLine Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:23 pm

TheRevTastic wrote:^@AC Absox isn't active....... poopface butthole
And Commandercoke hasn't been seen since the 22nd on the forum.

Still, Bing and AC, I don't feel shut down by any means. Smile I feel invigorated - people are coming out with all these different approaches and ideas. it's great. Very Happy

I suppose all I'm really thinking about is how to reward activity without making everybody elite. If the new members do come, we need them to have a select, active, helpful to look up to. So we want the elites to be that, however the staff goes about appointing them.

Of course, we need new members of some sort. Can we poach them from ELR or something, haha? Or perhaps a more reliable software, such as MyBB. I don't know.

Finally though, it's good to know that elite discussion is an ongoing thing. Thanks for reassuring everybody, guys :-)

Wish

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Post by Hedgehogs4Me Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:48 pm

"Rewarding activity" is the wrong way to do it, even if it's in a way that doesn't necessarily actually punish.
"Rewarding dedication" seems like something that might work, if it doesn't punish for not staying dedicated.

The problem is, though, basically everything we could do is just a statistic.
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Post by efrazable Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:06 pm

CC is active all the time on the stream, just doesn't post much.

KTK, Cam, and Absox have all logged on and posted recently, just... in the elite lounge. Exclusive.
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Post by Rafael Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:10 pm

Cam has his reasons but Absox and Ktk haven't done anything to the forum in a loong time (same goes for Purtle TBH).
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Post by Traxis Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:15 pm

Reading this entire thread, though probably not answering/providing opinions closely related to this thread, I have.. thought some stuff.

First of all, this site is exponentially smaller (or whatever the opposite of exponential is) and because of that, less needs to be done. The people here are the active members from IRtL, there aren't many new members who need to be taught things, or who get into mischievous activities. Because of this, less staff is needed, and even with some being inactive, or at least not constantly on this site, the site is going well. Yes, we don't have some of the big contests, or glamorous things we had before, but this website is more of a friends community than it is an open forum for people who enjoy the same thing.

Expanding on that last sentence now, I think we DO have some.. for lack of better words, problems. We all know each other, we're all 'friends' to a point. We know how everybody acts, reacts, and does things. Because of this, new members could feel left out. As said in PotD discussion threads, new people won't get the "Norbi" joke, and might not stay as they don't get our humour. Image a new person joins the forum, sees others making tracks, and decides, "hey, this is fun, people like games I do". They then see PotD, go in, and see 5 options. 2 are jokes they don't understand at all, 1 is a joke they don't fully get, and the other 2 are meh/bland answers like 'Yes, No, I think so, It sounds cool'. Will this person feel invited to our community, and want to stay?

Now to relate this to elites. As said before, staff are mostly needed to keep new members in line because old members usually understand what's right and wrong after a while. The new members that join and stay are few and far between because we aren't an open community. Without the need for many staff, the need for "mini-staff" (which elites are, in a sense) aren't needed. Why hire for a company that has no business, or is already fully staffed to aid the need of the customers they already have? Basically, new elites aren't needed because new staff aren't needed. Now, what if these mini-staff slack off? Well, as an unpaid intern, they're jobs don't fully run the company. If one takes off for a few months, and returns to check up on the place, what harm is there. The company is still running smooth, the other interns do the jobs they need to get done.

Basically, new elites aren't needed because new staff isn't needed, hence why it might seem "unattainable". Old inactive elites aren't needed because the current elites do all the jobs needed, and the inactives still visit once or twice, or have valid reasons for being gone for a few months. When it's seriously needed, new elites will come, dead elites will go, or being active, and staff will be promoted as seen fit.

This is my take of the situation, using my limited knowledge of what I understand about this community. Feel free to correct my inaccuracies or flawed logic, all my long posts seem to have them.
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Post by Rafael Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:18 pm

^ There've been plenty of people promoted to Elite lately (look at Chui and chiller).
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Post by Cereal Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:31 pm

I think nowadays it's more or a status symbol than anything. Elite is a rank for people who have been around awhile, are active, contribute, and know the do's and don'ts on the site.

While Absox and Ktk haven't been active at all lately (besides in the elite lounge), it wouldn't make sense to take their rank away unless they decide to "leave for good".

And no, I'm not cool like Bing, AC, Hedge, or Traxis. So my post is short. :|
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Post by Inukaza Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:37 pm

Personally, I would like to be admin, or mod, or elite, or lcc. Apparently I'm just a troll. Due to that reason, I'm expelled no matter what I do. (joke for the most part)

Whatevs. I see how it is. Why should I care?

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Post by efrazable Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:14 pm

Traxis wrote:
Spoiler:
I really do like how you put this. On a related note, with less members, there are less posts. Yet, we still have the same amount of sections. The ones related to line rider, we have 2 forums with 5, 4 sub-forums respectively. Yet, the far most active section is the Off Topic section, which probably has more activity per day than any other sub-forum. IMO, the Off Topic section might be better to expand into several different sub-forums, to help newcomers find where to post stuff.
On a related note, I previously mentioned that we have 9 sub-sections that are LR-related. TRT once mentioned to A1C4S8 that Gearworkz, the old forum he opened, was unappealing to newcomers for having so many sections. Maybe a trim is in order for those sections as well. Just a suggestion.
a mod wrote:how would we do that, exactly?
Um... move the MOTW to the WRTL Center? Make a sub-forum for games, such as Minecraft? Move POTD to Off Topic?
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