Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by hypothet on Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:02 pm

Agreed, although making sure mhenr sees what we need, just in case, is a great thing.
I'm glad we have a list of suggestions for Line Rider up on this site.
Just for an update on what it is that people are interested in having in LR.

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by mhenr18 on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:48 am

Woot!

My internationalised text system is done, and text looks way nicer thanks to my use of native text rendering. Also, the preferences system is done (using plists on the mac and the registry on windows) Smile

edit: I <3 2x mode. I've got a setting in the UI for the scale, so you can scale the UI to any size you want and because I'm using high-res textures things still look good at big sizes.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49905412/Screen%20Shot%202012-01-22%20at%204.24.12%20PM.png

also, here's LR in Japanese. (it's probably not 100% right, I was just using Google Translate to do a proof of concept to check if LR loaded in Japanese when I set my system language to Japanese)


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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by TeamBlast on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:07 am

oh yes japan
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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by mhenr18 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:30 am

Here's a novel idea for showing the linecount:

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by rabid squirrel on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:47 am

I still see no point to double sided lines.

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by mhenr18 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:04 am

@rabid squirrel wrote:I still see no point to double sided lines.

Reasons double sided lines are good:

  • You can do much tighter track work without worrying about g-wells.
  • You can do all sorts of new things with Bosh using double sided lines (hangs, grinds, etc).
  • Double sided lines don't speedglitch (even if in Conun's implementation they might (i havent checked), they won't in mine).
  • You can add tons more variety to a track using double sided lines (particuarly double sided acceleration lines).



Also, it's not like you have to use them if you're too short sighted to realise their potential - you have single sided standard and accel lines.

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by Kohuda on Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:33 am

@rabid squirrel wrote:I still see no point to double sided lines.

You don't see the point of double sided lines because you haven't used them yet.

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by [senpai] kevans on Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:57 pm

Spoiler:
@mhenr18 wrote:Here's a novel idea for showing the linecount:

I don't mind this Idea, but I do think it could be better.
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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by Hedgehogs4Me on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:22 pm

^ This reminds me of track comments where the entire thing reads something like,
"That was ok."
And then the trackmaker reads it and is like, "Well, that wasn't any help at all. :|"

...If you dig my jive here.

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by hypothet on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:34 pm

@Hedgehogs4Me wrote:^ This reminds me of track comments where the entire thing reads something like,
"That was ok."
And then the trackmaker reads it and is like, "Well, that wasn't any help at all. :|"

...If you dig my jive here.

Your jive is now buried.

I like it. Nice thought. It does take up a bit much space, though.

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by mhenr18 on Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:26 am

I'm not sure how much bandwidth my dropbox public folder gets, but I did a test recording of the new build. There's still an incredibly long way to go, but here's a taste of how smooth playback is in the new build. I couldn't upload it to YouTube because YouTube has a max of 30fps and this is a 60fps video.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49905412/fullspeedhi.mov

edit: if the video plays back jerkily, it's your computer not decoding the full 60fps - the video is fine

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by [senpai] kevans on Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:37 pm

Any way to make it less "pixelly"? or are you leaving that out too till the end?
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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by mhenr18 on Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:12 pm

i've got to implement antialiasing using 4xMSAA instead of the standard opengl line smoothing, so that will wait till the end.

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by hypothet on Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:57 pm

@mhenr18 wrote:i've got to implement antialiasing using 4xMSAA instead of the standard opengl line smoothing, so that will wait till the end.

I gathered that. It's not very efficient to keep putting things in and then applying and re-applying anti-aliasing because you're adding more into the program. :P

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by automatizer on Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:15 pm

that new version looks nice! you got to finish this bad! hope it gets released soon!

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by [senpai] kevans on Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:14 am

Don't save and cancel? Whats the difference?

Also, for that movie export thing, make sure the file format is .flv, because you tube handles that format the best and supports HD.

Also when it saves, is it less information per track compared to sol?
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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by mhenr18 on Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:23 am

kevansevans wrote:Don't save and cancel? Whats the difference?

Also, for that movie export thing, make sure the file format is .flv, because you tube handles that format the best and supports HD.

Also when it saves, is it less information per track compared to sol?
It's pretty bloody obvious. Cancel cancels the operation and takes you back to the menu and dont save doesn't save the track and makes a new one.

Secondly, you're totally wrong about video. Just, 100% wrong. Any format can be uploaded in HD (hint, YouTube uses something known as transcoding >_>) and YouTube rarely ever serves flash video any more - it's an antiquated container. All video on YouTube is either H.264 or WebM, Google's patent free codec. I export using WebM because it means I don't have to worry about patent issues and licensing - it's not something I want to deal with. FYI: http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/static.py?hl=en&topic=1728573&guide=1728585&page=guide.cs
As for saving, who cares? It's probably a bit less than saving it as a Flash Shared Object, but what's it matter? We use computers with a storage capacity measured in terabytes now.

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by [senpai] kevans on Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:58 pm

@mhenr18 wrote:
kevansevans wrote:Don't save and cancel? Whats the difference?

Also, for that movie export thing, make sure the file format is .flv, because you tube handles that format the best and supports HD.

Also when it saves, is it less information per track compared to sol?
It's pretty bloody obvious. Cancel cancels the operation and takes you back to the menu and dont save doesn't save the track and makes a new one.

Secondly, you're totally wrong about video. Just, 100% wrong. Any format can be uploaded in HD (hint, YouTube uses something known as transcoding >_>) and YouTube rarely ever serves flash video any more - it's an antiquated container. All video on YouTube is either H.264 or WebM, Google's patent free codec. I export using WebM because it means I don't have to worry about patent issues and licensing - it's not something I want to deal with. FYI: http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/static.py?hl=en&topic=1728573&guide=1728585&page=guide.cs
As for saving, who cares? It's probably a bit less than saving it as a Flash Shared Object, but what's it matter? We use computers with a storage capacity measured in terabytes now.

Obviously it wasn't obvious if I had to ask.

Secondly, I'm right about the video. Yes, they have an amazing codec that accepts all video (except .mov the little sons of a [censored]...) and can play them perfectly. HOWEVER, guess what the you tube player runs on? You guessed it FLASH! So naturally, if the video was an .flv, it wouldn't need this codec, meaning faster upload time and processing time. This is important to me, and possibly others, because of my sucky upload speed.

maybe as an option a toggle between .flv, .mp4, and .ogg?

There is also a difference between supporting HD, and having a file dimension of HD. An HD video must have a dimension of 1920×1080 pixels and an aspect ratio of 16:9, a video could have 1920×1080 pixels, but if it has 4:3 ratio, it's not HD, and vice versa. certain file types like .wmv and .avi can have a dimension in HD, but not the aspect ratio. Therfore, not HD.

Away from this discussion I have noticed an issue. Not everyone has an hd monitor, will there be a way around this when recording? because if it doesn't approach said dimensions, it won't be played on you tube in HD. Maybe an option that will stretch the screen to the appropriate size even if monitor is smaller?

as for the file size, that was just a question dude, I don't mean to piss you off (If your are not pissed I apologize, but that's how it seems like you are presenting it) but I was only being curious. Rolling Eyes
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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by Kohuda on Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:11 pm

kevansevans wrote:
@mhenr18 wrote:
kevansevans wrote:Don't save and cancel? Whats the difference?

Also, for that movie export thing, make sure the file format is .flv, because you tube handles that format the best and supports HD.

Also when it saves, is it less information per track compared to sol?
It's pretty bloody obvious. Cancel cancels the operation and takes you back to the menu and dont save doesn't save the track and makes a new one.

Secondly, you're totally wrong about video. Just, 100% wrong. Any format can be uploaded in HD (hint, YouTube uses something known as transcoding >_>) and YouTube rarely ever serves flash video any more - it's an antiquated container. All video on YouTube is either H.264 or WebM, Google's patent free codec. I export using WebM because it means I don't have to worry about patent issues and licensing - it's not something I want to deal with. FYI: http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/static.py?hl=en&topic=1728573&guide=1728585&page=guide.cs
As for saving, who cares? It's probably a bit less than saving it as a Flash Shared Object, but what's it matter? We use computers with a storage capacity measured in terabytes now.

Obviously it wasn't obvious if I had to ask.


It is pretty obvious when you think about how many programs that have this feature. Example: Word, Excel, MS Paint.

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by hypothet on Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:39 pm

kevansevans wrote:
@mhenr18 wrote:
kevansevans wrote:Don't save and cancel? Whats the difference?

Also, for that movie export thing, make sure the file format is .flv, because you tube handles that format the best and supports HD.

Also when it saves, is it less information per track compared to sol?
It's pretty bloody obvious. Cancel cancels the operation and takes you back to the menu and dont save doesn't save the track and makes a new one.

Secondly, you're totally wrong about video. Just, 100% wrong. Any format can be uploaded in HD (hint, YouTube uses something known as transcoding >_>) and YouTube rarely ever serves flash video any more - it's an antiquated container. All video on YouTube is either H.264 or WebM, Google's patent free codec. I export using WebM because it means I don't have to worry about patent issues and licensing - it's not something I want to deal with. FYI: http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/static.py?hl=en&topic=1728573&guide=1728585&page=guide.cs
As for saving, who cares? It's probably a bit less than saving it as a Flash Shared Object, but what's it matter? We use computers with a storage capacity measured in terabytes now.

Obviously it wasn't obvious if I had to ask.

Secondly, I'm right about the video. Yes, they have an amazing codec that accepts all video (except .mov the little sons of a [censored]...) and can play them perfectly. HOWEVER, guess what the you tube player runs on? You guessed it FLASH! So naturally, if the video was an .flv, it wouldn't need this codec, meaning faster upload time and processing time. This is important to me, and possibly others, because of my sucky upload speed.

maybe as an option a toggle between .flv, .mp4, and .ogg?

There is also a difference between supporting HD, and having a file dimension of HD. An HD video must have a dimension of 1920×1080 pixels and an aspect ratio of 16:9, a video could have 1920×1080 pixels, but if it has 4:3 ratio, it's not HD, and vice versa. certain file types like .wmv and .avi can have a dimension in HD, but not the aspect ratio. Therfore, not HD.

Away from this discussion I have noticed an issue. Not everyone has an hd monitor, will there be a way around this when recording? because if it doesn't approach said dimensions, it won't be played on you tube in HD. Maybe an option that will stretch the screen to the appropriate size even if monitor is smaller?

as for the file size, that was just a question dude, I don't mean to piss you off (If your are not pissed I apologize, but that's how it seems like you are presenting it) but I was only being curious. Rolling Eyes

I may be stoopid. But I thought .ogg only dealt with sound files. :/

Also H.264 is pretty HQ, I believe.

If not, revert to statement one.

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by CamQuartr on Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:23 pm

kevansevans wrote:
Obviously it wasn't obvious if I had to ask.
That's a pretty common feature on most programs now a days... (see Kohuded's post)

kevansevans wrote:Secondly, I'm right about the video. Yes, they have an amazing codec that accepts all video (except .mov the little sons of a [censored]...) and can play them perfectly. HOWEVER, guess what the you tube player runs on? You guessed it FLASH! So naturally, if the video was an .flv, it wouldn't need this codec, meaning faster upload time and processing time. This is important to me, and possibly others, because of my sucky upload speed.
Did you not even look at the link mhenr posted? It says there that the recommended format is a .mp4 with h.264 as the codec. Also, like mhenr said, flash video is outdated and rarely used anymore.

Format of the video doesn't madder when upload, it would depend on the file size, your internet's upload speed (and maybe time of the video, i dunno)

kevansevens wrote: maybe as an option a toggle between .flv, .mp4, and .ogg?
Not a bad idea, I can see something like this happening
(pic from the youtube uploading page). Who the hell uses .ogg?

kevansevens wrote: There is also a difference between supporting HD, and having a file dimension of HD. An HD video must have a dimension of 1920×1080 pixels and an aspect ratio of 16:9, a video could have 1920×1080 pixels, but if it has 4:3 ratio, it's not HD, and vice versa. certain file types like .wmv and .avi can have a dimension in HD, but not the aspect ratio. Therfore, not HD.

what...? HD video can be 720p, 1080i, 1080p, 2K and 4K, though its most commonly expressed through 720p and 1080p. Also, why would you ever make a video that has 1920x1080 pixel dimensions and a 4:3 aspect ratio? That would make very little sense... it would be all squished

kevansevans wrote: Away from this discussion I have noticed an issue. Not everyone has an hd monitor, will there be a way around this when recording? because if it doesn't approach said dimensions, it won't be played on you tube in HD. Maybe an option that will stretch the screen to the appropriate size even if monitor is smaller?

as for the file size, that was just a question dude, I don't mean to piss you off (If your are not pissed I apologize, but that's how it seems like you are presenting it) but I was only being curious. Rolling Eyes

What mhenr told me, is that it'll be an export feature, not a screen recording feature. So if you want to export in 1080p, you should be able to do that even if your monitor isn't 1920x1080 I BELIEVE.

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by mhenr18 on Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:16 pm

kevansevans wrote:
@mhenr18 wrote:
kevansevans wrote:Don't save and cancel? Whats the difference?

Also, for that movie export thing, make sure the file format is .flv, because you tube handles that format the best and supports HD.

Also when it saves, is it less information per track compared to sol?
It's pretty bloody obvious. Cancel cancels the operation and takes you back to the menu and dont save doesn't save the track and makes a new one.

Secondly, you're totally wrong about video. Just, 100% wrong. Any format can be uploaded in HD (hint, YouTube uses something known as transcoding >_>) and YouTube rarely ever serves flash video any more - it's an antiquated container. All video on YouTube is either H.264 or WebM, Google's patent free codec. I export using WebM because it means I don't have to worry about patent issues and licensing - it's not something I want to deal with. FYI: http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/static.py?hl=en&topic=1728573&guide=1728585&page=guide.cs
As for saving, who cares? It's probably a bit less than saving it as a Flash Shared Object, but what's it matter? We use computers with a storage capacity measured in terabytes now.

Obviously it wasn't obvious if I had to ask.

Secondly, I'm right about the video. Yes, they have an amazing codec that accepts all video (except .mov the little sons of a [censored]...) and can play them perfectly. HOWEVER, guess what the you tube player runs on? You guessed it FLASH! So naturally, if the video was an .flv, it wouldn't need this codec, meaning faster upload time and processing time. This is important to me, and possibly others, because of my sucky upload speed.

maybe as an option a toggle between .flv, .mp4, and .ogg?

There is also a difference between supporting HD, and having a file dimension of HD. An HD video must have a dimension of 1920×1080 pixels and an aspect ratio of 16:9, a video could have 1920×1080 pixels, but if it has 4:3 ratio, it's not HD, and vice versa. certain file types like .wmv and .avi can have a dimension in HD, but not the aspect ratio. Therfore, not HD.

Away from this discussion I have noticed an issue. Not everyone has an hd monitor, will there be a way around this when recording? because if it doesn't approach said dimensions, it won't be played on you tube in HD. Maybe an option that will stretch the screen to the appropriate size even if monitor is smaller?

as for the file size, that was just a question dude, I don't mean to piss you off (If your are not pissed I apologize, but that's how it seems like you are presenting it) but I was only being curious. Rolling Eyes

Flash has supported streaming of non-flv containers for quite some time and YouTube does just that.
I know what you mean about HD stuff, but you'll never see a 1920x1080 file get squished into 4:3 - the file would just be 1440x1080 to save space. I'm not tinkering around with pixel aspect ratios though so this won't be an issue.
If you read my post, I can't have codecs other than WebM or Ogg Theora due to patents/commercial licensing of codecs. You'll have to live with transcoding the video to edit - I can't do anything about that. Sorry Sad
I can use OpenGL framebuffers to composite frames at any size regardless of your window size. In fact, initially I'll ONLY be supporting exporting at 1280x720 or 1920x1080 (however I'll eventually add some more settings for exporting).

edit: oh also youtube works fine with QuickTime .mov containers. I've been using them to upload ever since 2008 Smile

2nd edit: right now i'm working on all the actual simulation stuff, ie collisions, behaviours of different line types, behaviours of bosh, etc. What I'm interested in knowing is if there's any changes people want made. As in, "x contact point should have slightly more friction" or "acceleration lines should have a slightly increased acceleration". That kind of thing where it's all just refining the current model. (hell, potentially even "the strings should become constraints")

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by [senpai] kevans on Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:18 am

@mhenr18 wrote:
Flash has supported streaming of non-flv containers for quite some time and YouTube does just that.
I know what you mean about HD stuff, but you'll never see a 1920x1080 file get squished into 4:3 - the file would just be 1440x1080 to save space. I'm not tinkering around with pixel aspect ratios though so this won't be an issue.



That's what I was saying.... At least we are thinking along a similar level. Rolling Eyes


If you read my post, I can't have codecs other than WebM or Ogg Theora due to patents/commercial licensing of codecs. You'll have to live with transcoding the video to edit - I can't do anything about that. Sorry Sad

well at least you got .ogg in so that will be good.


I can use OpenGL framebuffers to composite frames at any size regardless of your window size. In fact, initially I'll ONLY be supporting exporting at 1280x720 or 1920x1080 (however I'll eventually add some more settings for exporting).

Well that's good. 8D


edit: oh also youtube works fine with QuickTime .mov containers. I've been using them to upload ever since 2008 Smile

Really? whenever I try to upload a .mov, it never even approaches 1%


2nd edit: right now i'm working on all the actual simulation stuff, ie collisions, behaviours of different line types, behaviours of bosh, etc. What I'm interested in knowing is if there's any changes people want made. As in, "x contact point should have slightly more friction" or "acceleration lines should have a slightly increased acceleration". That kind of thing where it's all just refining the current model. (hell, potentially even "the strings should become constraints")

well the contact points that need friction are: Bottom peg, shoulder, foot, and hand.
2nd peg and the nose points don't have friction applied to them.
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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

Post by mhenr18 on Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:22 am

kevansevans wrote:
@mhenr18 wrote:
Flash has supported streaming of non-flv containers for quite some time and YouTube does just that.
I know what you mean about HD stuff, but you'll never see a 1920x1080 file get squished into 4:3 - the file would just be 1440x1080 to save space. I'm not tinkering around with pixel aspect ratios though so this won't be an issue.



That's what I was saying.... At least we are thinking along a similar level. Rolling Eyes


If you read my post, I can't have codecs other than WebM or Ogg Theora due to patents/commercial licensing of codecs. You'll have to live with transcoding the video to edit - I can't do anything about that. Sorry Sad

well at least you got .ogg in so that will be good.


I can use OpenGL framebuffers to composite frames at any size regardless of your window size. In fact, initially I'll ONLY be supporting exporting at 1280x720 or 1920x1080 (however I'll eventually add some more settings for exporting).

Well that's good. 8D


edit: oh also youtube works fine with QuickTime .mov containers. I've been using them to upload ever since 2008 Smile

Really? whenever I try to upload a .mov, it never even approaches 1%


2nd edit: right now i'm working on all the actual simulation stuff, ie collisions, behaviours of different line types, behaviours of bosh, etc. What I'm interested in knowing is if there's any changes people want made. As in, "x contact point should have slightly more friction" or "acceleration lines should have a slightly increased acceleration". That kind of thing where it's all just refining the current model. (hell, potentially even "the strings should become constraints")

well the contact points that need friction are: Bottom peg, shoulder, foot, and hand.
2nd peg and the nose points don't have friction applied to them.

I won't actually be using Ogg Theora, I was simply saying that I could use it if I wanted. WebM's fine so I'll use that. No matter what format I chose most people will transcode it to something else anyway because they'll be using it in their preferred video editor.

loading and saving works now. this is awesome. it's so good to finally be free of .sol madness Smile

edit: also, should I do the traditional save and save as, or should everything be save as? right now to save a track you always have to bring up a file dialog and I'm considering adding in a save button in the menu (the current save track would become save track as) and enabling the ctrl/cmd s shortcut for saving over the currently loaded file (ie like you'd ctrl-s in any other application to save the file you're currently working on)

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Re: Unleashed progress thread. (Previously Line Rider C progress thread.)

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