The/A Problem of Line Rider.

by Votale Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:32 pm

It's been like a year of us telling ourselves that Line Rider is dying. It's true. Compared to how the forums and releases were 2-3 years ago, Line Rider is dying. It's inevitable and evident that it's coming. Yes, there are tracks posted every day on YouTube, but how many tracks do you see from such nubs, or do they ever join the forums to ever improve? Rarely. But what's the problem? I posted this same topic on ELR and here's what some discussion led to, and I believe it's spot on as one of the reasons Line Rider is dying:

HG42 wrote:Here is what I think happened. If I'm a bit off, I apologize. Line Rider was new. It was fun. People had fun with it and version 2 came out. Terms were coined. Gwells were invented. Flings were made. People had fun with that. The people playing Line Rider noticed that what they were doing brought more members in because it seemed do-able. The amount of meesiness for me, with the original videos, made everything seem like it was fun and easy. People joined because they could do it. Then more and more tricks happened. Standards were raised. People got frustrated and quit. Others became inactive. Those that made huge contributions with bringing in members and such had trouble staying active in LR to to other issues.

IceWall2000 wrote:HG is right, every time i try to make a decent track, i get SO f***** frustrated and delete it. WE shuold try to lower our standards just a little.

FlagCapper wrote:The problem with line rider is it has become intimidating. The bar is higher and higher and higher all the time. To make an interesting track that's even respectable takes months and attention to detail to the point where it's ridiculous.

When loops are impressive everyone can be involved, when 3rd position foot alt flings are the norm everyone is alienated.

Votale wrote:The thing about past tracks and modern tracks is past tracks were something that inspired people because they looked possible to create. Today you look and see Kram and Aspi crap that's impossible for basically anyone but them and people are just like "Wow that's insane." Back then you saw FC and ZNF inspiring people with new stuff that was actually possible. Tracks like Incito and I.R.I.S. and all that make people look on what they've made after seeing those tracks and say "Wow this is terrible let me start over." Quit raising the bar and as FC said, "intimidating" people.

I'm sick of Line Rider being solely based on tricks. It doesn't inspire new people to join, it discourages them from playing the game. Not only do they discourage people from playing, but it makes tracks take months longer to make. I enjoy a nice Cereal track rather than some complicated, trick-oriented Kramwood track. Which would you rather watch, Volatile or Eclipse. I hate to pick on Kram here, but basically I see him pushing Line Rider ricks most, and it annoys the hell out of me.

Now when I look over and see Georgio, for example; He makes very enjoyable tracks, while still creating new, possible tricks. This makes people say "WOW I want to try that!" And stuff like that. The whole trick-oriented Line Rider of the modern day pisses me off to be honest. It's killing the whole game. For those who think that their tracks aren't good enough because of how high standards are: Don't let those high standards keep you from track making or releasing tracks. If anything, release what you make to gain useful advice and maybe even get better Very Happy

kbai.

by Derpinator Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:50 pm

Interesting

by Lankher Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:54 pm

I disagree, LR is not dying.

by Votale Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:57 pm

Are you saying it's just as active as it was 2-3 years ago? Let me answer that. No, it isn't.

by Lankher Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:06 pm

Decrease in activity = / = dying

by **OTDE** Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:07 pm

While line rider is dying to some degree, I try and happily ignore it ad just play line rider. I'm not a srs track maker. I certainly don't try and push the limits of LR, and even if I could, it would do me a buttload of nothing anyway. Do what you what, but I'll stick to my manuals and and have fun with them. I like to think that when I can't push the limits of LR, I can push the limits of creativity with what I have in front of me, and what I can do with manuals. That's not to say I haven't tried quirks, but I don't find them particularly interesting to work with. Maybe it's because I approach them wrong, but quirks, and superduper highspeed stuff, don't appeal to me. There's something to be said for slow stuff.

by Helios Pavonine Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:09 pm

Now riders only try to make awesome tricks and don't focus on style. In a few years we'll have the same tracks with the same tricks.

Bring back styles and uniqueness. I think this will prevent Line Rider from more dying.

by Votale Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:10 pm

Lankher wrote:Decrease in activity = / = dying

Are you dumb?

Depends if you're talking about the forum or track making in general over YT. Both are dying.

by **OTDE** Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:14 pm

Votale wrote:
Lankher wrote:Decrease in activity = / = dying

Are you dumb? Depends if you're talking about the forum or track making in general over YT. Both are dying.

^this completely.

by Votale Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:28 pm

I think FC explains it better than anyone. It's exactly what I think in my head but can't get down on here:

FlagCapper wrote:Well ZNF was around at least a year before I was, and is where I drew much of my early inspiration from (he was essentially the line rider god from the beginning summer of 07 to late 08). Even then, people were isolated into groups of really good track makers and people who sort of just hung around, because a lot of people saw even gravity wells as a challenge.

Before that, line rider was like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb-w0lo9neM, and that's exactly why it was popular. People still post on that video saying how much they love it. Hell I loved it. TechDawgg also did a really good job of making impressive tracks but still making them accessible, the main reason why his site was so successful. If a quirk legend had made a site it would have failed miserably, because:

A. Newbies don't understand anything more advanced than manuals. Seriously, show anyone who's heard of line rider by doesn't know about quirks Vision of Incito and they won't get it. They won't be amazed, impressed, or remotely interested -- they won't get it. A guy riding on a sled makes sense. Anything beyond that doesn't.

B. Newbies like scenery. Again, everyone understands pictures. Everyone understands a person riding on a sled through some sort of adventure. For example: Discarded, Make Believe, Urban Run, Jagged Peak Adventure, etc. Evolution type scenery on the other hand, doesn't work. It's too photo-realistic, too real. The abstract quirk scening is also doomed to be a failure. Flat-sledding through a mountain range works for a reason, it requires no actual knowledge to understand. This is the same reason pop music is popular over jazz or classical, same reason every single game is now a first person shooter game. You can't fight mediocrity by making better quirks and drawing nicer pictures.

Finally, it's really hard to get new members because with dwindling users it's impossible to bump a video to the top of YouTube, and posting videos on .com only goes so far. The only way I could feasibly think that it would be possible to restart line rider (and I really doubt this is possible), would be to start making [censored] tracks again, post promotion videos on YouTube, co-ordinate everyone to spam them everywhere at once (and by everywhere I mean upwards of 1000 people have to watch this thing in the first hour) and make sure when people search for "line rider" they end up here.

Why 1000 in the first hour you ask? Because that's what it took to get those videos up there in the first place. Line rider was immensely popular at it's release and following the release of TechDawgg's videos in 07. Observe: http://www.google.com/trends?q=line+rider

by **Sheldon** Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:34 pm

The good people are from 2-3 years ago It takes a nub along time to reach our standards. They try for sometime and give up. We should make a Newbie isolation forum...

by **Cereal** Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:34 pm

I think if we focus more on scenery, new members will be join.

(except for me, I suck at scenery. Really badly

)

by **Rafael** Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:25 pm

Line Rider isn't dying, the community is dying. Search Line Rider on youtube and you'll see dozens of videos being uploaded each day.

by Orthuss Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:29 pm

I, personally, find it really ironic that the people who say LR is dying are the exact same people who shun the new guys who attempt to try making tracks. These people get frustrated to the point of stopping to play line rider. That, because they don't feel like they get enough appreciation. I know, playing LR for "fun" is what drives some people, but it's still somewhat of an appreciation thing for a lot of new people, because it gives them a reason to make tracks. And they aren't appreciated because of those guys who ignore them, because, after all, the tracks they release are way below current standards. This lead to a giant vicious cycle. There are, of course, some people who just got good really quickly, for example Sssschiller or ATS, but definitely not many. There's a pretty small gap of entry to this community. Because of that, less people actually get good. And because of that, you guys can just go crawl in a hole, build a wall around your mind, and say that line rider is dying. These people quit, and because of that more people say that line rider is dying. It's a giant vicious cycle. Nuff said?

tl;dr: You know who you are. You suck.

by Chui Ninji Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:30 pm

Chui Ninji wrote:Honestly, I think it's the increased competition and expectancy of Line Rider now. Now, I'm not saying this competition is bad, because it births new things in Line Rider, and keeps it (relatively) fresh -- but look at it from the perspective of an outsider. If you're not in the competition from the start, it's really hard to catch up. Frankly, the competition is intimidating. The competitors are having a blast, and can't quite understand why it's not fun for others, or why it's not drawing in new players, but the newer players are scared of excess criticism and high expectations.

Now, I'm not going to assume that no one has fun making tracks anymore, but I think it's safe to say that track making is less fun and more competition. I also think -- going on a limb here -- that tracks are meant more to intimidate than entertain. Of course, there are exceptions, but in general, I believe that is so.

tldr; New players be all like "OH SHI-! I NO CAN HAZ LR! MUST PLAY COD!" when day see new track, instead of "Oooh. Lemme get all up in dat shi-." Yeah.

PS. No plausible solution given because no matter what path we take, it's a win-lose situation. More competition, less players. More entertainment, less players, lesser high-quality tracks.

I completely agree.

by CamQuartr Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:32 pm

But the thing is, Line Rider isn't dead yet.

There is still lots of tracks that come out per week, and a bunch per day.

by Wizzy Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:40 pm

Rafael wrote:Line Rider isn't dying, the community is dying. Search Line Rider on youtube and you'll see dozens of videos being uploaded each day.

Well how long do you think they'll be playing still? Line Rider IS dying. If they looked at any track released by someone from here, they'd probably ragequit.

@The thread: Congrats, I've been saying this for years

I honestly thing if we start a flatsled or simple scenery trend, we could easily get more noticed. I have pretty good experience with how youtube works and how the viewers respond to videos I make, so I really think that just by making (well, as we've said >9000 times already) really crappy but still awesomely entertaining tracks we could easily get more members.

by **Blesshiscottonsocks** Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:47 pm

Inxile STILL hasn't done that "Big money competition" Stern but Fair

by hypothet Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:01 pm

You missed the part where I said,

"But let's go here:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=videos&search_query=linerider&search_sort=video_date_uploaded

Why hello there. That seems to be active. Let's get members from there and try it. Show them videos that will interest them. Give suggestions. Show them different sites. Let them join."

by Wolf_Spirit Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:45 pm

As long as there are people enjoying playing line rider and there are people enjoying the forums I don't think there's anything wrong with line rider.

by rabid squirrel Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:32 pm

Votale wrote:It's been like a year of us telling ourselves that Line Rider is dying. It's true.

We've been telling ourselves Line Rider is dying since 2007. Just saying

FlagCapper wrote:Well ZNF was around at least a year before I was, and is where I drew much of my early inspiration from (he was essentially the line rider god from the beginning summer of 07 to late 08). Even then, people were isolated into groups of really good track makers and people who sort of just hung around, because a lot of people saw even gravity wells as a challenge.

Before that, line rider was like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb-w0lo9neM, and that's exactly why it was popular. People still post on that video saying how much they love it. Hell I loved it. TechDawgg also did a really good job of making impressive tracks but still making them accessible, the main reason why his site was so successful. If a quirk legend had made a site it would have failed miserably, because:

A. Newbies don't understand anything more advanced than manuals. Seriously, show anyone who's heard of line rider by doesn't know about quirks Vision of Incito and they won't get it. They won't be amazed, impressed, or remotely interested -- they won't get it. A guy riding on a sled makes sense. Anything beyond that doesn't.

B. Newbies like scenery. Again, everyone understands pictures. Everyone understands a person riding on a sled through some sort of adventure. For example: Discarded, Make Believe, Urban Run, Jagged Peak Adventure, etc. Evolution type scenery on the other hand, doesn't work. It's too photo-realistic, too real. The abstract quirk scening is also doomed to be a failure. Flat-sledding through a mountain range works for a reason, it requires no actual knowledge to understand. This is the same reason pop music is popular over jazz or classical, same reason every single game is now a first person shooter game. You can't fight mediocrity by making better quirks and drawing nicer pictures.

Finally, it's really hard to get new members because with dwindling users it's impossible to bump a video to the top of YouTube, and posting videos on .com only goes so far. The only way I could feasibly think that it would be possible to restart line rider (and I really doubt this is possible), would be to start making [censored] tracks again, post promotion videos on YouTube, co-ordinate everyone to spam them everywhere at once (and by everywhere I mean upwards of 1000 people have to watch this thing in the first hour) and make sure when people search for "line rider" they end up here.

Why 1000 in the first hour you ask? Because that's what it took to get those videos up there in the first place. Line rider was immensely popular at it's release and following the release of TechDawgg's videos in 07. Observe: http://www.google.com/trends?q=line+rider

This is so true. thank you FC.

HG42 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=videos&search_query=linerider&search_sort=video_date_uploaded

Why hello there. That seems to be active. Let's get members from there and try it. Show them videos that will interest them. Give suggestions. Show them different sites. Let them join."

Read FC's post and you'll see why those people never end up here. (and if they do, they lose interest)

by **Rafael** Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:39 pm

Wizzy wrote:
Rafael wrote:Line Rider isn't dying, the community is dying. Search Line Rider on youtube and you'll see dozens of videos being uploaded each day.

Well how long do you think they'll be playing still? Line Rider IS dying. If they looked at any track released by someone from here, they'd probably ragequit

Yes, but they don't look here. Our community will die. It'll take some time, but there will be a time that all of us will have quit Line Rider. However, there won't ever be a time that nobody plays Line Rider anymore.

by rabid squirrel Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:42 pm

heh

you know I've said for years that I know I'll quite Line Rider someday.

well I think I've changed my mind. I don't think I ever will. I've been doing this since January 2007, never really stopping for more than a couple months. that's over four years of my life. I have so many amazing ideas, all I need is time. And I know that time will come eventually.

ironically, the less active this site gets, the more time I have to actually do stuff. I know that sounds weird but it's true, it just also happens that my life is getting busier and busier these days.

by **Rafael** Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:44 pm

Everybody is going to be sick of LR sometime. I don't see my time coming soon, but I know it'll come.

by Stickheadz32 Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:29 pm

I am 50% sure that Line Rider is dying. The problem is that we don't get inspiration enough of watching Line Rider videos anymore. But we're still playing it. Why play other activities at the same time?

by Sponsored content

The/A Problem of Line Rider.

The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.

Re: The/A Problem of Line Rider.