Ride Liner - HAM

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Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Ride Liner on Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:32 am



Copied from YouTube:
Music is "Anta Wa Dare Ya" by Midori (I knew there was something I forgot in the credits).

I'm officially back! Here's a short track I made to force me to relearn the game.

Unfortunately I can't access my old YouTube account right now, so I'll be using this channel while I sort that out (or possibly indefinitely).

Additional info:
.trk:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/srsz6h6l29bu2qx/552%20FinalCleanedForRealThisTime.trk?dl=0

The whole point of this track was to just "go ham" and push myself to figure what can be done with the new tools, without having to worry too much about the final product looked. This escalated into using macros (and occasionally .trk file manipulation) to draw way too many lines and do weird stuff that I hadn't seen in other videos yet.

Tricks:

Since people were asking, here's a brief overview.

Fundamentals:

(You guys may know some or all of this already.)
Multi-lining: Due to floating point errors, having a whole bunch of red lines in the same spot can sometimes be used to add an arbitrary amount of speed to a contact point. I used this extensively throughout the track to fix Bosh's momentum tick when it got too screwed up.
Line order: At around :38 I found out that lines typically collide in reverse of the order they are drawn in. I started drawing a big blue multi-line pile whenever I began work on an involved frame, and it made everything significantly easier.
The grid: There is an invisible 14x14 grid encompassing the whole plane. You can find a grid line by pulling bosh with XY lines until you can't pull him any more (make sure you are drawing your lines in reverse order as above), then drawing green lines in 14 unit intervals from this coordinate. The positions of the lines within the grid relative to the starting position of a contact point within an iteration will determine which lines the point can collide with, how many collisions can occur with a single line, and the order of the collisions.

Tricks:

Singularities: You literally just have to pull all the contact points into one spot using XY lines. It is easiest to do this when every contact point is moving in the same general direction (northwest, northeast, southeast, or southwest, with northwest being particularly easy). Sometimes it won't be possible due to the momentum vectors and Bosh's position in the grid, in which case you just adjust the positioning.
Surviving singularities: Usually he survives on his own, but if not then you can fix him by injecting a red multi-line earlier in the iteration.
Singularity chains: Singularities are even easier to make starting at the 3rd one in a row due to his points starting closer together on iteration one.
"Singularity spikes": This is what I have been calling the singularity + red multi-line combo. That's basically all it is; make a singularity on iteration 1 and then grab him with a red line on iteration 2, making sure to proc the multi-line glitch. (Use 2 ~perpendicular red lines in sequence if you need the extra control.) With a proper set up you can have each line affect every contact point 15+ times over the course of the frame. Add in the ability to draw lots of lines in the same spot very quickly and this becomes by far the most powerful movement option currently known.
"Wormhole": Use 10,000+ red lines on a singularity to accelerate Bosh to insane speeds then decelerate him the same way on the next frame. I had to write a program to insert this many lines efficiently. There are 2 in this video, one at :41 and one at :44.
Singularity recycling: If you set up your lines to cover a wide area (~two boxes), this is easy to do since you can adjust position easily with spikes.
Extreme glitch frames: At :43 I lined the contact points up in relation to the grid so that I could pull them farther apart than would be possible in a typical situation.
"Ladder": This is what I've been calling the thing at :48. By drawing long, nearly opposite facing lines and then repeating them in an alternating pattern, it is possible to interleave the collisions and pull a contact point as far back as you want ("back" being relative to the velocity of the contact point).

tl;dr:
Draw draw blue lines in reverse order, spam red lines, mind the grid.


Last edited by Ride Liner on Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:29 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by OTDE on Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:47 am

I would best describe my experience right now as "shook."

I will say that I try to look at tracks from an artistic perspective, and look for narrative, and this didn't have that. This was chaos.

I'll be damned, though, if you didn't pull the physics engine behind the shed and pummel it to death. At this point, it looks so utterly alien to me. It's well synced, and it's powerful as hell.

As someone who wants to use Line Rider to tell stories, this does nothing for me. As someone interested in the physics of this sandbox, I'm interested, both in the track and your process.

Huh. I think being away for so long has changed how I look at tracks.

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Conundrumer on Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:01 am

http://holyshit.wtf

This escalated into using macros (and occasionally .trk file manipulation) to draw way too many lines and do weird stuff that I hadn't seen in other videos yet.

can you explain this process. i was thinking of doing something similar as well

ok took a look and it seems you took multilining to the next level

also this track appears to not work on lrjs (towards the end, bosh flies off a fling) so i'll need to look into that


Last edited by Conundrumer on Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:50 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Chuggers on Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:48 am

holy fuck

this track gives me hope

i've been looking for the perfect track for a long time, and until someone proves otherwise, this is it

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Sheldon on Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:09 am

How did you know how to do this
we need to talk add me on skype
12000 ppf and a fucking teleportation how and the hell did you do that. Also its laggy as heck
heres my skype add me now : paco4tacopuffs

EDIT: after looking at it I know how its done but not how you did it, there is a singularity multiline cannon but how the you are a mad man


Last edited by Sheldon on Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:29 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Apple on Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:11 am

What the crap was that?! That is one of my favorite tracks in a long time. Amazing job, and please keep whatever that was up.

In most tracks that use things beyond my capabilities, it's like it's close and in reach if I wanted to try and grab it. Like, "I don't quite know how this person got the shoulder contact point and the foot contact point to be going in those directions and I bet if I sat down and tried it for a while I could figure it out." This one was so cool to me because I don't really know what I don't know. It was blazing fast and every part of it was over just before you had time to think about it. It was awesome.

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by FlagCapper on Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:50 am

Cool stuff, as always. The stall especially is pretty incredible.

It would be nice if we could get something in some LR version or other that would directly let us set the coordinates of the lines so we don't have to resort to .trk file editing.

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Rafael on Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:49 pm

I think this is pretty close to what quirk looks like to the average person, lol. Sick workerooney

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Lukking on Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:55 pm

can you explain in detail how you did the singularity or any of the stuff weve never seen before?

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Helios Pavonine on Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:26 pm

This is one of few times my jaw literally dropped. I'm not joking. It did.

Even after watching in 0.25 speed I can't figure out what's going on. Sick comeback track man. AMAZING job.

now can someone make him legendary already

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Wizzy on Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:48 pm

"I'm working on a new track."
"Oh yeah? how's it going?"
"Oh you know, just invented a singularity."
"...."

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by OTDE on Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:28 pm

Helios Pavonine wrote:This is one of few times my jaw literally dropped. I'm not joking. It did.

Even after watching in 0.25 speed I can't figure out what's going on. Sick comeback track man. AMAZING job.

now can someone make him legendary already

He's already LRL, but for some reason it isn't showing up. should be fixed soon.

Edit: bam. there you go.

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by rich on Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:36 pm

I would like to know how you did this, or just some parts of it.
This blew my mind.
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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Sheldon on Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:20 pm

Wizzy wrote:"I'm working on a new track."
"Oh yeah? how's it going?"
"Oh you know, just invented a singularity."
"...."
singularity was invented by anton, but not really ever released
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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Wizzy on Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:16 pm

Sheldon wrote:
Wizzy wrote:"I'm working on a new track."
"Oh yeah? how's it going?"
"Oh you know, just invented a singularity."
"...."
singularity was invented by anton, but not really ever released

I'm glad to be working with him on a pencil flatsled.

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Ride Liner on Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:55 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone. It's great to hear all the different perspectives.

OTDE wrote:Huh. I think being away for so long has changed how I look at tracks.
I'm having the opposite experience, oddly enough.

Conundrumer wrote:http://holyshit.wtf

This escalated into using macros (and occasionally .trk file manipulation) to draw way too many lines and do weird stuff that I hadn't seen in other videos yet.

can you explain this process. i was thinking of doing something similar as well

ok took a look and it seems you took multilining to the next level

also this track appears to not work on lrjs (towards the end, bosh flies off a fling) so i'll need to look into that
I'll probably make a thread for my tools later this week but there's a bug that I want to track down first. Also, that's hilarious, of all the places for the track to diverge...

Chuggers wrote:i've been looking for the perfect track for a long time, and until someone proves otherwise, this is it
Nah, when I watch this track now I notice how pretty much everything could have been done at least a little bit better. I'm glad you liked it though.

Sheldon wrote:a fucking teleportation
Can we please call it a wormhole? I really think we need to call it a wormhole.

Lukking wrote:can you explain in detail how you did the singularity or any of the stuff weve never seen before?
rich wrote:I would like to know how you did this, or just some parts of it.
This blew my mind.
I can't go into too much detail right now since it would basically require a full explanation of the collision mechanics, but give me some time and I'll update the main post with the basic ideas. I'm also considering making an in depth physics tutorial sometime since we seem to be painfully lacking one, despite all the necessary information being out there already.

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by OTDE on Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:08 am

Interested to hear what you mean re: my comment. Do you mean that you've realized that you hold the same views now as you did previously? If so, what are they?

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by theacp127 on Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:08 am

Had to comment about this track. It's the most technical that's ever been made up to this point, and by a dude that hasn't really played Line Rider at all in a while. Where did you learn these techniques? People like Sheldon and Anton have been working this stuff out over the last year so I guess you studied up on it before starting to make this track? Most the community can't come close to this kind of stuff.

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Chuggers on Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:45 pm

the wormhole if anyone doesn't know what is being talked about

1 frame of movement from the left to right point

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by ACwazHere on Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:57 am

DUDE WHAT?

1) YOU STILL EXIST?
2) DUDE WHAT?


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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by TeamBlast on Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:00 am

I came back for a day and this happens.

WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Ktk on Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:33 am

uh
wut
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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Opal Rider on Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:02 pm

Chuggers wrote:the wormhole if anyone doesn't know what is being talked about

1 frame of movement from the left to right point

How. HOW. First off, how did I not see that happen in the color replay. Second, HOW.

I love watching these kinds of tracks because i don't really have a need or want to understand what he's doing and why he's doing it. It just works, and that's okay for me.

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Ride Liner on Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:59 am

OTDE wrote:Interested to hear what you mean re: my comment. Do you mean that you've realized that you hold the same views now as you did previously? If so, what are they?
I only meant that I seem to be enjoying the same things in a track that I used to. Which unfortunately also means that I still don't like very many tracks made by people other than Anomaly.

As to what my views actually are, I had to spend quite a bit of time thinking about it.

Basicallly, I just like watching the little guy do flips and stuff on his sled.

(Okay, so it's a little deeper than that, and I obviously care about the technical side as well. But the beauty that you can create in a bare track is what I really find compelling about this toy, and it's the only thing that will drive me to revisit a Line Rider video more than once or twice.)

theacp127 wrote:Had to comment about this track. It's the most technical that's ever been made up to this point, and by a dude that hasn't really played Line Rider at all in a while. Where did you learn these techniques? People like Sheldon and Anton have been working this stuff out over the last year so I guess you studied up on it before starting to make this track?
When I started this track, I had only watched the stacking tutorial on the Twitch page and read this post. I still didn't know how to do a kramual or a cannon, and had only played around with stacking a little bit, but this track was my chance to figure all that stuff out.

A little ways through, I read Conun's implementation of the physics engine, which gave me the information I needed to make the the last ~20 seconds.

theacp127 wrote:Most the community can't come close to this kind of stuff.
Anyone here is capable of doing anything I did in this track; in fact, I find most of the "new" things easier to do than stacking. The main thing holding people back is the fact that so much information exists only as tribal knowledge of a few individuals who communicate primarily through private Skype conversations. (Though it also doesn't help that the current tools weren't built to support some of this stuff.) I've already heard talk of some new tutorials coming, so this will change in the near future. If I have to, I will make the tutorials myself, though I have not historically been great at that sort of thing so it's probably best that it does not come to that.

Opal Rider wrote:How. HOW. First off, how did I not see that happen in the color replay. Second, HOW.
In case you are actually asking:
1. It happens at 1:30 in the colored replay.
2. There is a basic explanation in the main post (under "Tricks").

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Re: Ride Liner - HAM

Post by Commandercoke on Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:52 pm

I don't understand this stuff anymore, and I can't say I'm really interested in learning, but hawt dawg it's fun to watch people gettin' weird with linerider.

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