Quirky Definition - Skype recap

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Quirky Definition - Skype recap

Post by anton on Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:40 pm

Feel free to continue the discussion here!

@Anton wrote:Ok, so when People say "everybody does quirk", or "quirk is very popular", I feel like something remains unvoiced. "Quirk" is such a Natural way of moving bosh around. So natural I'd argue it's indispensable to the game. Quirk has become a collective term for 98% of all tracks. You can look at "Come to daddy" and "v3". Two VASTLY different tracks, that are both technically "quirk", but what do they have in common? they use gravity wells? oh ok, so does XY and if you want to get technical, so does manual tracks too.

When you categorize tracks into just four main bulks: Scenery, Manual, XY, and quirk. The three first groups are easily defined. Scenery: pretty green lines. Manual: balance bosh on one or more contact points, heavy use of manuals. XY: just straight lines (u’know whad im talkinn about). But how is quirk defined? I challenge all of you to come up with a precise definition for quirk. If not for the community, at least for me.
It is easy to say a track isn’t a scenery track, or a manual track, but this isn’t necessarily the case with quirk.

I Guess my main issue here, and the reason for this rant, is that "quirk" is such an unspecific term, it has, in my opinion, become obsolete. How do we Counter this? eh, idk. I just wanted to raise this point

or maybe i am just high as shit

@Rich wrote:quirk
a peculiar behavioral habit.
"his distaste for travel is an endearing quirk"
synonyms: idiosyncrasy, peculiarity, oddity, eccentricity, foible, whim, vagary, caprice, fancy, crotchet, habit, characteristic, trait, fad; informalhang-up

Quirk is just the behavior of of using the lines in peculiar way: as in, to change the gravity behaviors of bosh's contact points.

@Orthuss wrote:I just really dislike this double standard of preaching open-mindedness but lumping every fling-based track in the "generic quirk" pile. I don't know how to say it. I guess I'm just a little bitter.

@Opal Rider wrote:I think there are way more than four main categories, tbh. Between those four we also have alt/progressive quirk (I still haven't found the difference between those two) manuquirk, and various plays on xy, such as 45 degree snap and all x or all y. We can combine any style we want to get different track styles and results, but to use a music analogy, it's not always beneficial to say "I don't have an idea for this song, I just want to make it in this genre".

Like some people have mentioned before, it's not limited to quirk at all. I got wrapped up in Schiller style manuquirk, and havent' played around with much else for the majority of my LR career. Interestingly enough, when I tried doing different things, like Curiosity and Telephoto, I felt like the results didn't compare to my usual stuff, and fell back into the same manuquirk slump. If there's one thing I would want to see, it's the promotion of ideas and concepts in newer generations rather than technicality and skill. Even if both are important, praising people for their originality would be beneficial to creating more and more original tracks.

@Rich wrote:I feel like it's a sandbox game, and whether people are pushing technicality or doing scenery; everyone is just playing it how they want to play it. It's just highlighted often in a technical way, due to the way skill depth games progress. Some people like technical stuff, and some people like stylistic tracks. It's basically an open market of tracks; people like some tracks; and people don't like some tracks. It's not for the community to decide which way the game is focused; the players filling in the sandbox decide. If you can show what people like then that is better for you as a creator, because then your tracks have a high viewer demand. that's all my thoughts.

Emma wrote:genres are labels, and styles are the "path not taken" of those genres

we can say it's natural but probably it's just something we chose and stuck with

@Rich wrote:I think it's totally natural to have labels on general styles, and to have more technical styles within a genre.

Emma wrote:yes? but I mean that the way we use lines isn't a fixed process and the genres and specializations are the result of constant user feedback and refinement rather than the game itself

I think asserting that quirk as it is was a natural outcome is forgetting quirk, as it isn't
that said, I skimmed and maybe I misread the whole point of this discussion

(it's like we have explored a space of possivilities within line rider, we know what the "knowns" are, we know generally the known unknowns, and we know that there are unknown unknowns but it's a complete shot in the dark to actually find them.)

@Rich wrote:The way we use lines are abstract constructions in a sandbox game, with that being said people will draw abstractions based on the abstractions another human user has made, and that is just pattern recognition on what you like. The reason I like to make quirk is because anomaly made quirk, and he called it quirk. So I spent so many hours in 6.1 and 6.2 trying to make gwells and flings that my abstract construction process in line rider was primarily based around quirk. It's not a shot in the dark, people who make abstractions in the game are people who are trying to often push the game technically, then people take the technicality and push it stylistically.

@OTDE wrote:: I should also clarify that at no point have I said "yo V3 and C2D are both the same thing, anything with gravity wells is just generic quirk." That's disingenuous to both the point that I made and to people like Anton who do really creative and off the wall stuff with quirk, which I admire.

Emma wrote:I had no clue what the point was, I was just chiming in since everyone else happened to be chiming in x)
going to reread things
ah okay
yeah that issue is common in any medium
it generally comes from specifying the general technicality of the production rather than how it makes you feel

Helios wrote:Holy butthole

@Rich wrote:I know OTDE didn't say that, I'm not trying to bring down OTDE love for line rider, but I think the concept that people should move away from quirk or technicality isn't right. I think people should move in what ever direction the feel like moving.

Emma wrote:so like, portal and CoD are both FPS games but they're very different, and very few would say that FPS is descriptive of the games themselves

@Rich wrote:which is not OTDE's point, but rather a concept that arose from the new track.

Emma wrote:tl;dr we should just come up with our own genre names for shits and giggles, it's what anomaly did lol

well, retroactively

@OTDE wrote:My point is that quirk is an assumed default—if you want to make a track or convey an idea, the first and usually only way people will convey it is through quirk. This means we see a lot of quirk of all kinds, and I'm interested personally to see what other stuff has to offer. I'm not going to pressure anyone else to follow suit.


Anyway I think a lot of this discussion deserves porting over to the thread
^Now we here.

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Re: Quirky Definition - Skype recap

Post by Apple on Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:28 pm

This is an interesting topic. I just spent 20 minutes trying to connect different styles in a big tree-like diagram, but it was too messy to save.

All I have to add is that I think XY is a sub-category of quirk most of the time. Quirk in my mind at least is more or less an encompassing definition for any track that primarily used gravity wells in some form to move bosh around. So most XY tracks fall under that umbrella. I know that's not all was talked about, but it's a thought I had.

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Re: Quirky Definition - Skype recap

Post by SPL4SHZ0N3 on Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:45 pm

Every game or toy has specific limitations and rules. As you play more, you naturally want to discover; expand the limitations, and see when the rules no longer hold true.

At every moment, every frame, Line rider gives you a choice. Not just every frame in time, but frame in picture. Due to these choices, patterns within and between tracks and track-makers eventually become apparent.

"Quirk" is definitely a genre, but it's a large and arguably superfluous genre. Similar to "electronic" music, it has numerous sub-genres probably due to its popularity.
About the definition though, I think all it requires is "utilizes gravity wells."

"There is something to be learned from a rainstorm. When meeting with a sudden shower, you try not to get wet and run quickly along the road. But doing such things as passing under the eaves of houses, you still get wet. When you are resolved from the beginning, you will not be perplexed, though you still get the same soaking."
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Re: Quirky Definition - Skype recap

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