See ya

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Re: See ya

Post by Noname219 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:20 am

Sorvius, you should have taken a few step backs from your monitor if you were disagreeing with rabid's comment. Deleting your account and a big chunk of LR's history certainly does not "help grow the community again".
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Re: See ya

Post by rabid squirrel on Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:24 am

Sorvius was a complicated and messy human being.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekr_45kdIvw&t=136m35s
Here is an archive of a livestream when sorvius skyped with me from about 6 weeks ago. At 2:16:35 you can hear him level about his personal struggles and how he rediscovered the Line Rider community. I strongly encourage everyone to take a listen. Later on he talks about his vision for the future in scenery especially in regards to the DNA at 3:34:10 (which has inspired some idea in my head for scenery in the future), his love for the game, his plans for retrograde scened, etc.

I was hoping that this would be the first of many skype sessions and chats with Sorvius, and I really wanted to do a broadcast where we watched all his old videos together. It's really incredibly sad to me that his ego brought an early end to what I was hoping would be part 2 of a great Line Rider career. I wish he had had the restraint to not delete all his videos, because that's not something that can be reversed. But sorvius, if you're reading this - you are still welcome back here anytime and I'd love to chat with you again.

Here's a bit of the conversation from that video, transcribed from 2:31:00:
rabid: I was gone [for] like 9 months in my senior year
Sorvius: yeah when you were schoolin'
rabid: well I was schoolin' but I was also just struggling with, I don't know, depression and heartbreak and...
Sorvius: right
rabid: things that happen to us, as we go through life
Sorvius: yeees, yeeees, oh I coudl tell ya stories
rabid: but anyway, uh, that's... that was probably the big reason why I wasn't there
Sovius: yeah - and that'll happen you know
rabid: it was... coming back to the forum, and seeing it, and being like, wow, you know, we're averaging - like, it's averaging like 2 posts per week, like there's nothing happening, you know, there's just nothing happening on this forum - and just trying to figure out, like, what do I make of this? Do I just, shrug, and...
Sorvius: you had to make a decision, are you gonna go in headfirst, or are you just gonna let it die peacefully
rabid: yeah, you know, so that was the... but, you know... stories like the one you're telling me just, gosh, they just, you know, it makes it all worth it. You know - it makes me very glad that I, that I, you know, made the right decision, you know?
Sorvius: Ah, you definitely did, that's for sure
That is how I want to remember him.

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Re: See ya

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:02 am

As harsh as my reaction was earlier, I must admit how difficult it was to hear. It makes me sad that one of the only people who remembers my old time and the only connection I have left with Sparkworkz is gone. It's also saddening to know that somebody who probably had more passion for the community than anybody of us except for Rabid can just forsake the community this way.

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Re: See ya

Post by Fauxfyre on Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:12 pm

It doesn't help to repost people's videos against their wishes and publicize ask their personal issues every time they quit. That's cruel and a terrible way to excuse your own behavior. You did the exact same thing with me last year.

People here need to look in the mirror to find why members quit this place so explosively. This is not a safe haven for creativity or discussion, and the small centralized community makes it feel hard to go against the norm.

Sorvius doesn't want this videos up, much less does he want you saying he's a mess and it's all his personal issue for wanting to quit, completely ignoring your own behavior which triggered all this.

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Re: See ya

Post by RyderLR on Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:22 pm

just wow.

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Re: See ya

Post by Sheldon on Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:57 pm

Shotoku, you just love causing arguments don't you? Deleting all your videos is never the right solution, because they are integral to our history. We will recover as many as we can. And no rabid did not trigger this, it was almost entirely his anger that conundrumer went viral and he never did, I have spoken to him about it. What rabid said merely set him off, anyone could have said something mildly disappointing and caused the same outcome.
With that being said,
Don't delete your videos. again
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Re: See ya

Post by rabid squirrel on Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:17 pm

@Fauxfyre wrote:It doesn't help to repost people's videos against their wishes and publicize ask their personal issues every time they quit. That's cruel and a terrible way to excuse your own behavior. You did the exact same thing with me last year.
It's not about the wishes of the person who deleted their videos. If they value the community that little I don't think they get to make the decision to withhold content that has inspired people. Art belongs to it's audience, not its creator.

EDIT: here's someone talking about this better than I can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46cUBRQM6cM&t=2m34s

@Fauxfyre wrote:People here need to look in the mirror to find why members quit this place so explosively. This is not a safe haven for creativity or discussion, and the small centralized community makes it feel hard to go against the norm.
I think the reason is ego, and that people don't like not being worshipped for things they spent hundreds of hours on. I know more than anyone that the small centralized community makes it hard to go against the norm, man. But there's no correlation between going against the norm and ragequitting the site (but there is a correlation between ego and ragequitting)

@Fauxfyre wrote:Sorvius doesn't want this videos up, much less does he want you saying he's a mess and it's all his personal issue for wanting to quit, completely ignoring your own behavior which triggered all this.
I'm pretty sure he was overreacting, and if you think my message singlehandedly caused him to delete his videos, and that my post was trying to put him in a negative light, you must have some personal issue with me.

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Re: See ya

Post by OTDE on Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:30 pm

@Fauxfyre wrote:People here need to look in the mirror to find why members quit this place so explosively.

You're right that it's worth examining, but, in my personal view, utterly wrong about why.

The community is small. People in the community don't want to see other people leave. This will often mean, when someone posts something, the response is, on the majority of occasions, bland praise. You know what I'm talking about-- the "good job, makes more"s and the "those manuals are nice and smooth"s, or even the dreaded "I'll have more to say later, but here's a post acknowledging that I watched the track." This gets magnified when a track that's really, really impressive comes out-- simple things like "holy fuck" and "I may have just peed myself a little," while admittedly hilarious, don't contribute anything.

So why do people consistently make these comments? A couple reasons.

First, they're easy. It's a lot harder to articulate why you've enjoyed some parts of the track, or why you didn't enjoy others, than to say something that's quick and communicates vaguely positive things about the track. But secondly, and perhaps most importantly, it's safe. Regardless of whether people like a particular track or not, most people want the trackmaker to continue making tracks. So these bland, positive comments often come with an implied desperation, because the worst line-rider nightmare many of us have is the one where there's nobody left, and the forum fades away. The loud "good job, make more" carries with it a whisper of "please don't leave" on its tail.

One of the difficulties that comes with making art, especially in Line Rider, is that people will often attach their sense of self to their tracks. This is dangerous: praise directed at a track, through this lens, becomes an affirmation of a person's identity, while critique carries with it a certain condemnation of a person's entire way of life. You can see it in the way a lot of people address tracks, and nobody's really completely safe.

Sorvius, like many people before him, was showered with a lot of praise. Aside from an occasional gripe about particular sections of things, nobody had ever really told him "I don't like this track" or "This track did what you're trying to do better." When he came back to the community as it is now, a fair amount has changed. The community as a whole has become more comfortable with critique. And this was, on a fundamental level, jarring to Sorvius.

Honestly, the whole thing is tragic.

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Re: See ya

Post by Fauxfyre on Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:48 pm

I wanted to stay for ToL, and is the only reason I log in right now but will probably be stopping as honestly it's pretty predictable from this point forward, and this place hasn't improved since last time in the slightest. I hoped by bringing attention to what causes people to quit from the perspective of someone who has attempted a few times but returned with the empty hopes of something good coming out of things here.

I find it very sad though how people bash on Sorvius for feeling self-entitled, yet claim his work belongs to them and Sorv has no say in his own work. Mind boggling how people would rather deny it and thus affirm me and yet still claim they're arguing against me. And Rabid, the link you sent (at least the timestamp in it) doesn't really address the point of you not helping the distaste people have for this place by forcing their videos to be immortalized forever.

Who knows what will happen, maybe I'll drop by some other time to see if you guys are still alive, but at least ToL made me realize the reason my tracks aren't enjoyed is because nobody shares my same opinion on what makes a track great, so I could never make something people would give a big whoop about. And before anybody spreads lies, my videos aren't deleted, nobody just gets to see them.

Final note while I was seeing if I forgot to mention anything: I also think it's sad that you all can band together and make people like Sorvius and Myself the villain in threads like this based on assumptions you make about people's character just because of how they react to your crap. I don't know why you think Sorvius wanted to still be "worshiped" probably because in your mind he's some egotistical asshole, but maybe he just found out that most people don't even give two shits about tracks anymore and the people that do are not people he cares to hear opinions from. There's a big difference between "worship" and just being appreciated.

Ta-ta for now


Last edited by Fauxfyre on Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fixed typo so jerks don't change the subject)

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Re: See ya

Post by Conundrumer on Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:39 pm

I was trying to write a response to Fauxfyre, but the more I read, the less I understand. I don't get a lot of context from his previous posts.

@Fauxfyre wrote:This is not a safe haven for creativity or discussion, and the small centralized community makes it feel hard to go against the norm.
I am so sorry you have that perspective. In my perspective, while there's room for members to grow and be more mature and respectful (sometimes I need to be called out, too), we've already come a long way and we're currently in very exciting times for Line Rider. It's a shame you won't be part of this movement.

Re. Revealing Sorvius's personal problems: Rabid and Sorvius were talking about it on Livestream. Sorvius, himself, shared it. He made it public.

Re. Sorvius wanting to be appreciated: The only way for me to come to that conclusion is to ignore the context. Clearly, he thinks highly of his own tracks, and needs to learn humility. I'm able to say this because I was like him many years ago.

Here's what I was trying to write (also responded to deleting videos):
Spoiler:

I believe that our priority as a community is to keep Line Rider moving forward. Part of moving Line Rider forward is to have members stay engaged with Line Rider and make contributions, whether through creating tracks or even just discussion.

Given our current size, it's a big loss when a member leaves the community. The question is, why do people leave? Most of the time, Line Rider simply becomes a lower priority in life. Sometimes, the member does not feel accepted. One reason they wouldn't feel accepted is that they actually weren't here for Line Rider.

(In the case of Sorvius, he was here to be recognized for something, and he was using Line Rider as a vehicle for that. There was also that random guy a while back, Diotoxin? who wanted to hang out with internet people)

Another reason is, arguably, this community does not treat its members well. This is a frequent occurrence on internet communities, where it's easy to misinterpret the tone of other people's writing, and where it's very easy for disagreements to escalate. OTDE elaborates on this, in the context of artistic criticism.

@Fauxfyre wrote:This is not a safe haven for creativity or discussion, and the small centralized community makes it feel hard to go against the norm.

I don't understand why you think this is the way it is. Am I just immune to whatever toxicity you're trying to point out? I mean I agree that all this bashing of Sorvius is inconsiderate, and we need to work on what OTDE discussed, and some of us can learn to be more mature and respectful, but I never felt any pressure by the community to follow norms. Can someone explain this to me, or show me evidence of disrespect?

Regarding saving tracks: Contributions (tracks) are already part of the community. If a contributor wishes to remove their contributions (taking down their videos), they would be taking away from the community, thus harming the community. In the interest of moving Line Rider forward, it's important for us to know our own history, so we know the direction we've taken and where to go next. Therefore, it's a bigger priority to save these contributions than to respect the wishes of the contributor.

See you soon, Fauxfyre.

In the end, in our current state, I think it's better for people who left the community to have left the community.

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Re: See ya

Post by rabid squirrel on Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:42 am

@Fauxfyre wrote:honestly it's pretty predictable from this point forward
your guesses had about 50% accuracy
@Fauxfyre wrote:I hoped by bringing attention to what causes people to quit from the perspective of someone who has attempted a few times but returned with the empty hopes of something good coming out of things here.
Coming back to a community without apologizing for your (terrible) actions and attacking us endlessly with arguments that don't actually make sense, then saying that you don't feel welcome and that you were right about how we all suck because we respond by disagreeing with you... I'd call that a self fulfilling prophecy.
@Fauxfyre wrote:I find it very sad though how people bash on Sorvius for feeling self-entitled, yet claim his work belongs to them and Sorv has no say in his own work. Mind boggling how people would rather deny it and thus affirm me and yet still claim they're arguing against me.
Your logic is so convoluted here I literally cannot make sense of it. Sovius was egotistical. Works of art released to the public are no longer under the control of the artist. These are two different things that are not related.
@Fauxfyre wrote:Rabid, the link you sent (at least the timestamp in it) doesn't really address the point of you not helping the distaste people have for this place by forcing their videos to be immortalized forever.
"I think it's really hard for creators... to see their work go out into the world and be loved for reasons you didn't intend... once you've done your best and something is out in the world, you have to let it go. ...making stuff is like a wookie. If you try to hold on to the stuff you make with too tight a grip, it will rip your arms right off."
Deleting your videos does not remove them from ever having existed. They have been watched and loved and have inspired others, and it is not fair to the people who love and remember them to never be able to see them again. Imagine if George Lucas had the audacity to try to rid the world of everything related to Star Wars, how do you think that would go down?
@Fauxfyre wrote:Who knows what will happen, maybe I'll drop by some other time to see if you guys are still alive
Oh, we will be, despite your best efforts. Don't worry Smile
@Fauxfyre wrote:ToL made me realize the reason my tracks aren't enjoyed is because nobody shares my same opinion on what makes a track great, so I could never make something people would give a big whoop about
You could have tried respectfully expressing your views about what makes a track great instead of whining that nobody agrees with your unspoken opinion. I frankly have no idea what your views are.
@Fauxfyre wrote:And before anybody spreads lies, my videos aren't deleted, nobody just gets to see them.
You don't get to publish videos and then later tell people they are not allowed to watch them. Everyone will get to see your videos if they want to.
@Fauxfyre wrote:I also think it's sad that you all can band together and make people like Sorvius and Myself the villain in threads
Nobody's a "villain" here. You and Sorvius are just assholes Smile
@Fauxfyre wrote:based on assumptions you make about people's character just because of how they react to your crap.
I think how people react to other people disagreeing with them is the best way to determine their character, actually. How else would you determine someone's character?
@Fauxfyre wrote:I don't know why you think Sorvius wanted to still be "worshiped" probably because in your mind he's some egotistical asshole
[2/15/16, 8:35:49 AM] Sorvius: the suggestion was to show them something i did hoping it, too, will get a lot of views and make me happy again ;_; that too much to ask?
"get a lot of views and make me happy again" sounds like worship to me
@Fauxfyre wrote:maybe he just found out that most people don't even give two shits about tracks anymore
You think "most people don't even give two shits" about ANY tracks anymore? What are you smoking?
@Fauxfyre wrote:and the people that do are not people he cares to hear opinions from.
If this was the case he would be content with leaving. Which would have been fine. But this doesn't justify deleting all his old videos. That's where it becomes a dick move.

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Re: See ya

Post by TheRevTastic on Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:45 am

I may not care all that much for Fauxfyre/shotoku but I do agree with the part about people not wanting their videos out there anymore when they leave and then the site going oh we don't care we are keeping them up anyways. It's always left a bad taste in my mouth, I khow if I had actually made anything worth watching and left and took down all of my videos just to have them put back up without my permission or even asking me if it is alright to do so would make me very agitated.

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Re: See ya

Post by rabid squirrel on Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:01 am

If the inability to control whether people watch your tracks or not after you release them to the public causes you anxiety, you probably shouldn't release tracks. Or create art of any kind. Part of artmaking is giving your art to the world. Giving. Not allowing people to see it if they promise to be nice. Giving it away.

EDIT: Does not apply to copyright law ofc. Artists can and should be able to control who makes money off of their art, and who takes credit for their art, which is why copyright law exists. What you can't do is "take it back" if you don't like the response it gets. Again, imagine if George Lucas tried to do that with Star Wars.


Last edited by rabid squirrel on Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:05 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: See ya

Post by Sheldon on Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:03 am

The thing about the internet and social media in general. Is you shouldn't post anything that would A. harm your reputation, or B. You would like to be gone at some point, because someone could have it downloaded, it's probably out there somewhere. We have proven that that is typically the case.
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Re: See ya

Post by Rafael on Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:40 pm

@Fauxfyre wrote:People here need to look in the mirror (...)
Oh the irony.
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Re: See ya

Post by Z_N-Freak on Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:12 pm

Although I think Sorvius work was always very impressive, I never really re-watched any of his tracks. Not sure why, but I guess maybe the presentation didn't do it for me (editing, song-choice etc.). I am not very much affected by him deleting his Line Rider tracks, other than that I feel sad for people who do like to watch his tracks and it's not cool in general to have tracks deleted. It's sad that people delete tracks out of spite.

[/2cents]

Bye Sorvius. May you enjoy your life Smile [/nosarcasm]

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Re: See ya

Post by Min3rl3g4nd on Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:38 am

@Sorvius wrote:this is all your fault.
What?

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Re: See ya

Post by Min3rl3g4nd on Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:54 am

10/10
@rabid squirrel wrote:Sorvius was a complicated and messy human being.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekr_45kdIvw&t=136m35s
Here is an archive of a livestream when sorvius skyped with me from about 6 weeks ago. At 2:16:35 you can hear him level about his personal struggles and how he rediscovered the Line Rider community. I strongly encourage everyone to take a listen. Later on he talks about his vision for the future in scenery especially in regards to the DNA at 3:34:10 (which has inspired some idea in my head for scenery in the future), his love for the game, his plans for retrograde scened, etc.

I was hoping that this would be the first of many skype sessions and chats with Sorvius, and I really wanted to do a broadcast where we watched all his old videos together. It's really incredibly sad to me that his ego brought an early end to what I was hoping would be part 2 of a great Line Rider career. I wish he had had the restraint to not delete all his videos, because that's not something that can be reversed. But sorvius, if you're reading this - you are still welcome back here anytime and I'd love to chat with you again.

Here's a bit of the conversation from that video, transcribed from 2:31:00:
rabid: I was gone [for] like 9 months in my senior year
Sorvius: yeah when you were schoolin'
rabid: well I was schoolin' but I was also just struggling with, I don't know, depression and heartbreak and...
Sorvius: right
rabid: things that happen to us, as we go through life
Sorvius: yeees, yeeees, oh I coudl tell ya stories
rabid: but anyway, uh, that's... that was probably the big reason why I wasn't there
Sovius: yeah - and that'll happen you know
rabid: it was... coming back to the forum, and seeing it, and being like, wow, you know, we're averaging - like, it's averaging like 2 posts per week, like there's nothing happening, you know, there's just nothing happening on this forum - and just trying to figure out, like, what do I make of this? Do I just, shrug, and...
Sorvius: you had to make a decision, are you gonna go in headfirst, or are you just gonna let it die peacefully
rabid: yeah, you know, so that was the... but, you know... stories like the one you're telling me just, gosh, they just, you know, it makes it all worth it. You know - it makes me very glad that I, that I, you know, made the right decision, you know?
Sorvius: Ah, you definitely did, that's for sure
That is how I want to remember him.

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Re: See ya

Post by efrazable on Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:06 pm

Of all the threads you could bump, bruh.

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Re: See ya

Post by TheRevTastic on Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:00 pm

He also needs to learn how to use the edit button.

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Re: See ya

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