Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:09 pm

I'm sure a tool could be written to transfer .trk files into .sols, but the problem with that is that .trk files have new formatting which allows for certain interaction that wasn't previously possible with .sols. So, transferring back to Flash LR would be a pain in the applesauce to implement because they're two different systems...

If this gets any easier to use, however, I may start working on my own way of making the file types compatible.
Also, .sols are encrypted in ways that are proprietary to Flash upon closing the game, so we'd have to crack private keys to structure data in the same way as to be readable. This is an intensive, and illegal, process. :/ You can rename a file to .sol and see what happens lululul

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by JealousCloud on Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:15 pm

Dapianokid wrote:I'm sure a tool could be written to transfer .trk files into .sols, but the problem with that is that .trk files have new formatting which allows for certain interaction that wasn't previously possible with .sols. So, transferring back to Flash LR would be a pain in the applesauce to implement because they're two different systems...

If this gets any easier to use, however, I may start working on my own way of making the file types compatible.
Also, .sols are encrypted in ways that are proprietary to Flash upon closing the game, so we'd have to crack private keys to structure data in the same way as to be readable. This is an intensive, and illegal, process. :/ You can rename a file to .sol and see what happens lululul
.sol files are not encrypted.
the .trk format is available on request, however I don't plan to support porting trk files to sol files due to new features.

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by rabid squirrel on Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:45 pm

Decided to go for it, and I've been working on a track for over an hour that was pretty simple but required heavy music sync that just didn't work on my laptop without making a zillion recordings. Made 25 seconds of track on this thing :O

Updated complaints:
- Like dap said, off white background. To be more specific, Bosh's body, hands, feet, and sled are white, but his hat and the background are not. Merr...
- I miss the old scarf Sad This one doesn't match bosh's neck scarf or the overall aesthetic and I am nostalgic about his scarf the way it was. Toggle?
- I like undo, but I also miss backspace and i wish I could have them both. Sometimes I just want to delete stuff I just drew. Also control z is harder to reach.
- I miss the timer! I know it shows up by flags, but sometimes the time is on top of bosh and I can't read it and also it's annoying to mark a flag to see where the time is.
- I miss the tab key. I used that all the time. Zoom out to see the whole track, then zoom back in on whatever you want
- Sometimes there seems to be a snapping bug right after I use undo to get rid of a line and then right away try to draw a line snapped to the line the one I just deleted was snapped to.
- Also, the lack of anti-aliasing in the graphics makes everything super pixellated.

Though this could be due to me using it via Parallels on a mac http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/

This track means so much to me personally that I dunno if I would be willing to record it with this weird scarf and off white background which is why I was hoping for .sol compatibility. Like, it's like a love letter to the game and it wouldn't feel right to release it with this aesthetic...

EDIT:
- when I switch from the eraser to line tool, it doesn't remember the colors, they're not sticky per say. So If I'm drawing red lines, switch to eraser, then switch back to lines, the line tool auto selects blue. Super annoying.
- I wish I could do line swap like in 3.4.x

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:38 pm

LoneVampire wrote:
Dapianokid wrote:I'm sure a tool could be written to transfer .trk files into .sols, but the problem with that is that .trk files have new formatting which allows for certain interaction that wasn't previously possible with .sols. So, transferring back to Flash LR would be a pain in the applesauce to implement because they're two different systems...

If this gets any easier to use, however, I may start working on my own way of making the file types compatible.
Also, .sols are encrypted in ways that are proprietary to Flash upon closing the game, so we'd have to crack private keys to structure data in the same way as to be readable. This is an intensive, and illegal, process. :/ You can rename a file to .sol and see what happens lululul
.sol files are not encrypted.
the .trk format is available on request, however I don't plan to support porting trk files to sol files due to new features.

Please PM the .trk format.

Also, I am with rabid on the backspace and "plus+backspace" hotkeys.
The only thing that would make this perfect now is if we could toggle bosh's body being transparent while contact points is on.

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by Anton on Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:57 pm

As I've played LRA for about 5 hours now, I have become quite the expert on the matter.

CTRL + Z for undo is ok. As aa person with a non-english keyboard, backspace for undo was a real pain in the ass. However this is just a matter of what you are comfortable with. I would like to suggest to implement a method of customizing key assigments.

Scarf-  I am fine with this.
A: You do not have to specify when you're using LRA, as it will be recognised.
B: You get used to it real quick

.TRK - From the prespective of one who doesn't necessarily engage in coding and file formatting, I am genuinly unsatisfied with .trk files. Only reason being they're incompatible with kevans version. This tension may ease up over time, as an increasing percentage of the community might start using LRA
as default.

Timer- Necessary.

Rabid squirrel wrote:-when I switch from the eraser to line tool, it doesn't remember the colors, they're not sticky per say. So If I'm drawing red lines, switch to eraser, then switch back to lines, the line tool auto selects blue. Super annoying.
^yep.

Live feedback- TAHNKZ THNEKS THXANS THANKS

Slowmow- a means of being able to start the track in slowmo and toggle slowmo/default would be greatly appreciated, but is not of priority imo. Just annoying to have to speed it up manually by clicking the arrows down at the bottom. (this can be fixed by adding "Slowmo FPS: 40" under the Slowmow tab)

Song feature- I need you to know how great this is. The only thing that could make this better is if you could play the song and let it play for a couple of seconds before the track starts.

So far I'm lovin' it

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by JealousCloud on Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:15 pm

rabid squirrel wrote:Decided to go for it, and I've been working on a track for over an hour that was pretty simple but required heavy music sync that just didn't work on my laptop without making a zillion recordings. Made 25 seconds of track on this thing :O

Updated complaints:
- Like dap said, off white background. To be more specific, Bosh's body, hands, feet, and sled are white, but his hat and the background are not. Merr...
- I miss the old scarf Sad This one doesn't match bosh's neck scarf or the overall aesthetic and I am nostalgic about his scarf the way it was. Toggle?
- I like undo, but I also miss backspace and i wish I could have them both. Sometimes I just want to delete stuff I just drew. Also control z is harder to reach.
- I miss the timer! I know it shows up by flags, but sometimes the time is on top of bosh and I can't read it and also it's annoying to mark a flag to see where the time is.
- I miss the tab key. I used that all the time. Zoom out to see the whole track, then zoom back in on whatever you want
- Sometimes there seems to be a snapping bug right after I use undo to get rid of a line and then right away try to draw a line snapped to the line the one I just deleted was snapped to.
- Also, the lack of anti-aliasing in the graphics makes everything super pixellated.

Though this could be due to me using it via Parallels on a mac http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/

This track means so much to me personally that I dunno if I would be willing to record it with this weird scarf and off white background which is why I was hoping for .sol compatibility. Like, it's like a love letter to the game and it wouldn't feel right to release it with this aesthetic...

EDIT:
- when I switch from the eraser to line tool, it doesn't remember the colors, they're not sticky per say. So If I'm drawing red lines, switch to eraser, then switch back to lines, the line tool auto selects blue. Super annoying.
- I wish I could do line swap like in 3.4.x

Rabid, I have a few thoughts. I'm not budging on returning the original scarf. I am more than likely going to update the scarf, model, or both in the future. I think it's a good way to provide non significant distinction between the original and this. I'm probably keeping off-white. Though I'm glad you pointed out that his hat was transparent.

I'll add a timer next patch, and probably the tab functionality. Can't find the snapping bug you mentioned, though. Would appreciate more info.

I'm still reluctant on keybinding. Especially ctrl z/y. These are standards and people who are used to backspace are actually the outliers, as nearly nothing allows backspace to function as undo.

Will bug fix the eraser thing.

Also anti aliasing is something I'll look into under virtual machines.
Anton wrote:As I've played LRA for about 5 hours now, I have become quite the expert on the matter.

CTRL + Z for undo is ok. As aa person with a non-english keyboard, backspace for undo was a real pain in the ass. However this is just a matter of what you are comfortable with. I would like to suggest to implement a method of customizing key assigments.

Scarf-  I am fine with this.
A: You do not have to specify when you're using LRA, as it will be recognised.
B: You get used to it real quick

.TRK - From the prespective of one who doesn't necessarily engage in coding and file formatting, I am genuinly unsatisfied with .trk files. Only reason being they're incompatible with kevans version. This tension may ease up over time, as an increasing percentage of the community might start using LRA
as default.

Timer- Necessary.

Rabid squirrel wrote:-when I switch from the eraser to line tool, it doesn't remember the colors, they're not sticky per say. So If I'm drawing red lines, switch to eraser, then switch back to lines, the line tool auto selects blue. Super annoying.
^yep.

Live feedback- TAHNKZ THNEKS THXANS THANKS

Slowmow- a means of being able to start the track in slowmo and  toggle slowmo/default would be greatly appreciated, but is not of priority imo. Just annoying to have to speed it up manually by clicking the arrows down at the bottom. (this can be fixed by adding "Slowmo FPS: 40" under the Slowmow tab)

Song feature- I need you to know how great this is. The only thing that could make this better is if you could play the song and let it play for a couple of seconds before the track starts.

So far I'm lovin' it
The track can be started in slowmo using shift y and default playback speed can be set via preferences. though I may be misunderstanding what you mean, I don't understand what the use of "slowmo fps 40" would be.

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by OTDE on Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:00 pm

I'm gonna put my two cents in here: I really really don't like the off-white. I don't think anybody else does, either. I don't mean to be harsh, but it just doesn't look good. Sorry Sad

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by rabid squirrel on Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:03 pm

LoneVampire wrote:I'm not budging on returning the original scarf. I am more than likely going to update the scarf, model, or both in the future. I think it's a good way to provide non significant distinction between the original and this.
At least redesign Bosh. His scarf is currently in two pieces, the original on his neck, and the weird fuzzy thing trailing behind him that doesn't match the rest of the graphic in the slightest

LoneVampire wrote:Can't find the snapping bug you mentioned, though. Would appreciate more info.
It might just be snapping working differently than 3.4.x

LoneVampire wrote:I'm still reluctant on keybinding. Especially ctrl z/y. These are standards and people who are used to backspace are actually the outliers, as nearly nothing allows backspace to function as undo.
What about keeping ctrl+z as-is, but adding backspace as "delete most recently drawn line"? A single keystroke is WAY faster when you're working quickly, as dap can tell you.

LoneVampire wrote:The track can be started in slowmo using shift y and default playback speed can be set via preferences. though I may be misunderstanding what you mean, I don't understand what the use of "slowmo fps 40" would be.
He wants to start in slomo, and THEN quickly switch into normal speed. We're all used to being able to switch between "normal" speed and "slomo" speed with a single button press.


Last edited by rabid squirrel on Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by Chuggers on Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:04 pm

OTDE wrote:I'm gonna put my two cents in here: I really really don't like the off-white. I don't think anybody else does, either. I don't mean to be harsh, but it just doesn't look good. Sorry Sad
maybe off-white should be a toggleable option, because I personally think its an improvement

looks more like a canvas and less like its burning my retinas

also, it makes bosh's white different than the bg, which makes green screening even remotely possible
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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by iPi on Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:20 pm

Chuggers wrote:also, it makes bosh's white different than the bg, which makes green screening even remotely possible
Well in that case, why not just have a toggleable green background? That would be an interesting concept.
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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by Wolf_Spirit on Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:59 am

Why can't there be a menu where users can input their own key bindings like in most games, so we can all make it to our own personal preference?

EDIT: Also, cannot get the music to work in it, this is what I do:

  • Put the .sol into its folder
  • Put the song, an mp3, into its folder
  • Open LR
  • Open the track
  • Go onto 'song sync' and enable music, select the song then close the window.
  • I let the song load with the blue circle thing in the top right
  • Press play and wait a while whilst it loads, then the track plays and no song...


Running on Windows 8

EDIT#2: Sometimes I get this error:


EDIT#3: Tried a shorter song, less than 7 mins and it works, so my song was too long?

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:29 pm

Ooooh I think now would be a great time to point out something, Noah:
People are using this basically expecting a Kevans version with music sync. They haven't quite been prepared to fully grasp the concept of "This is an entirely new editor. We should rarely even need to delete lines since we can FREAKING ADJUST THEM (that took you a while to implement, I'm sure)"

I would like to point out to those of you who are vie-ing for an autoslowmo, there is a playback reduction option in the preferences menu. However, there is no speeding the game up in playback if you use this option.

Guys, this is ONE man. Not a team of well organized individuals. This is a man our age with a talent and some free time. But don't stress him out. Don't expect a fully fledged, well done game yet. It's an Alpha.

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by rabid squirrel on Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:36 pm

Dapianokid wrote:We should rarely even need to delete lines since we can FREAKING ADJUST THEM (that took you a while to implement, I'm sure)"
Unless you want to change the line type, which you currently can't do without erasing and redrawing... And this also doesn't work for green lines...

Anyway, after playing for another couple of hours on stream and doing some more intense work, here's some more feedback:

- I can't move around much while paused, it always keeps Bosh within the frame. It also readjusts the camera frame as I modify the track lines. This is a bit annoying sometimes.
- Adjust tool completely stopped working for me. Wasn't terribly useful for me anyway when I was usually editing whole curves at a time, or wanting to change lines from blue to red or vice versa.
- Snapping is... I dunno. it works sometimes, and other times it seems like I can't get something to snap...
- I reaaaaaally wish there was a way to skip forward/backward a frame with a keypress instead of playing past the end, pausing, then scrubbing back to where I want to work.
- can't use spacebar to move around while paused because it plays the track. Awkward to have the spacebar control both those things.
- still accidentally hit flag from time to time, have to fastforward back, can't undo un-marking the flag. Not as annoying because fast forward but still annoying.
- I'm annoyed by how I can't zoom out to see the whole track, or zoom out very far at all. Not that bad because the lag is so much lower but I still wish I could navigate as efficiently as I used to be able to.
- Could you auto-select the first song It's weird to have to check the box AND select the song.
- Hit test and live updating don't mix too well. Maybe turn hit test off when you go into live updating? Or make it update as you modify things somehow?
- Is there a way to smoothly zoom in and out during playback e.g. for a recording, or is scrolling the only way?

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by OTDE on Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:41 pm

I do agree with dap-- it should be said right now that we are REALLY frickin' grateful for what you're doing here, LV. Like, wow. I couldn't imagine this in any capacity until you and conun started working on this stuff.

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by JealousCloud on Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:57 pm

Dapianokid wrote:Ooooh I think now would be a great time to point out something, Noah:
People are using this basically expecting a Kevans version with music sync. They haven't quite been prepared to fully grasp the concept of "This is an entirely new editor. We should rarely even need to delete lines since we can FREAKING ADJUST THEM (that took you a while to implement, I'm sure)"

I would like to point out to those of you who are vie-ing for an autoslowmo, there is a playback reduction option in the preferences menu. However, there is no speeding the game up in playback if you use this option.

Guys, this is ONE man. Not a team of well organized individuals. This is a man our age with a talent and some free time. But don't stress him out. Don't expect a fully fledged, well done game yet. It's an Alpha.
Bolded some really well put statements. Really appreciate this comment.

I do plan on adding 'm' slowmo and many more things that have been mentioned recently. I appreciate the feedback from all of you. Rabid, I'll look into the things you've said.

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by Anton on Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:33 pm

LoneVampire wrote:The track can be started in slowmo using shift y and default playback speed can be set via preferences. though I may be misunderstanding what you mean, I don't understand what the use of "slowmo fps 40" would be.

When quirking I like to play the track in slowmotion, 2f/s by default so that I can see how every frame affects him. Having a slowmo 40 fps would allow to use shift y as regular speed and having the default play button go in slowmotion. It is just annoying to either shift+y to start or reconfigure the playback speed every time you want to see it with proper speed.

Not priority and I don't know if you understand exactly why I want it, but it would be extremely helpful

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by rabid squirrel on Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:42 pm

I hope my posts aren't coming off as demanding. I'm of course very happy this thing exists and is making possible the track I am currently working on Very Happy

I know from my own background of game development that it's super helpful to get specific user feedback about what is frustrating and what bugs or issues a user runs into. I know that there may be reasons why you can't or don't want to do anything I suggest and you are of course entitled to do whatever you wish with the thing you built for free and are giving us for free Smile

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by JealousCloud on Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:25 pm

Yeah I get it.

I'm not gonna be working on this for the weekend cause I'm going somewhere with the girlfriend. Thought I'd say it somewhere. shrug.

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by rabid squirrel on Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:42 pm

Totes cool.

First I have to say that I LOVE YOU. Because the game froze & crashed (not sure why), and I was like fuck I haven't saved in 2 hours. And then I opened the game and THERE WAS A SAVE CALLED CRASH BACKUP and it was exactly where I had left off. THANK YOUUUUUUU

Anyway. I'm warming up to the off white & new scarf.

Been using the line adjust tool much more, and it hasn't stopped working for me since that first time.

Sometimes the song sync gets off until I close & reopen the game. But it's consistently off about 0.3 seconds, so I just offset the song that much and we're all good again. But I thought I would let you know.

I do struggle with navigating the track from time to time - with not being able to zoom out super far, the "end" key not being there anymore to jump me to the last-drawn line, and the tab key function also not being there.

Also the mouseover text on the zoom slider tends to stick to my mouse cursor sometimes, for some reason...

Just hit 2 minutes on that track I was streaming. Going to be 3 minutes long in total. I have gotten up to about speed 60 in the second half Very Happy

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by Fauxfyre on Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:18 am

HOLY FUCKING SHIT BALLS I HAVEN'T BEEN SO EXCITED FOR ANYTHING FOR YEARS THIS IS THE COOLEST BEST THING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED TO THIS GAME AND I'M SO HAPPY I DON'T THINK I CAN SLEEP TONIGHT WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOD JOB BROOOO~~~~~~

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I CAN'T EVEN CONTAIN MYSELF RIGHT NOW WHY DIDN'T ANYBODY TELL ME EARLIER

edit:
I feel better now after letting that out

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by rabid squirrel on Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:45 am

oh also, here's what I mean about LRA not being backwards compatible, from the "backward compatibility" wikipedia page:

In the case of a program that creates document files, a new version of that program ("v2") is said to be backward compatible with the old version of the program ("v1") when it can both read and write documents that work with v1. Everything that v1 could do must also be possible with v2, including saving documents that can be read by v1 (which is something that v1 could do).

If a newer software version cannot save files that can be read by the older version, it is not backward compatible with the older version, although it may provide an irreversible upgrade capability for the old files.

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:32 am

ohi shotoku

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by rabid squirrel on Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:06 pm

Updates after making this track and spending a good dozen hours or so in LRA:

I was trying to stream it (which was a bad idea, it lagged badly enough that it was hard to test music sync) and the game *sorta* crashed, in that it completely stopped working but the system didn't read it as not responding. Had to end the task, and it didn't save a backup. Lost 3 hours of work. Sad face.

For the line adjust tool, when you have two lines snapped to each other and you grab that spot, it would be great if you could move both of them at once and have them stay snapped instead of moving one and then trying to move the other to the same spot.

I have had a few instances where the music playback completely stopped working, maybe due to lag. I have found it is difficult for me to do a lot of stuff (skype, stream, screen share, in particular) while also playing LRA in parallels without the lag becoming prohibitive (<10fps) I am guessing ym use of parallels is a major contributor to this issue.

I feel really sad for my mac friends who would have to spend $150 to get the setup I have Sad I just happened to have this setup leftover from school-related purposes. I hope we can find a way to get this to straight-up open on a mac.

Most of the previous complaints I've been able to absorb into my workflow without too much trouble, with the exception of snapping, which continues to frustrate me, and that glitch where the music gets off by .3 seconds which has caused me to make whole sections of track .3 seconds off sync.

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by Anton on Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:51 pm

http://prntscr.com/85euci

This is an issue. Occured after similar crash report like Wolf posted.
1060 lines, happened while playing with kramuals (not sure if it matters)

EDIT:
http://prntscr.com/85exk3
This is the error. This time it did not corrupt the backup save

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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

Post by Rafael on Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:41 pm

Sorry, I haven't really been up to date with this at all. But is will this ever be available for Mac?

And second, I don't see why we need another scarf, or why you shouldn't be able to transfer a .trk file back to .sol. By the looks of it this is going to be the new way of playing, and I love it! The physics are still the same, you still need to be skilled to make good tracks and the possibilities have only grown bigger.

Maybe we should make a discussion about this, but I'm all for calling this a 'fair' version.

Also know that I totally love that you've come back LV, and not just because of this Smile
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Re: Line Rider: Advanced alpha r1.51 [December 30] Line Properties

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