Important: Moving forward

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Important: Moving forward

Post by JealousCloud on Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:19 pm

Hello. I'm Lone Vampire, but you can call me Noah. I recently revisited the forum and decided I wanted to rewrite the game from scratch as a side project. I didn't expect much, but I figured I'd try. Well. The project has gone extremely well. Far enough that I can talk about it without the community worrying about the project getting tabled like many versions of the past.
I now potentially have the power to help shape the future of Line Rider and this forum. I believe Line Rider is art; a way of expressing oneself. I propose my intentions to change the game in any way that would further the goal of self expression, without going unbound :|. Sticking to its roots, while being an independent game. In fact, I might not even keep the name Line Rider.

So, as I'm sure you're aware, there are a lot of problems here. The first and foremost problem is you. Yeah, {USER|NAME}, I'm talking to you. Many of us have felt it for a long time now, some of us are just now getting to understand it, but the amount of freedom remaining in the game to do something original is draining. That said, you, the community, have consistently pushed against progress. kevans has done a great job to keep the game up to date, but the very limited amount of progress that you have allowed him, paired with the failure of unbound, is the very reason that not only will this forum not expand, but it will eventually die.
I think I can change this course, but you have to trust me.

The question is, will you? Closed mindedness is what has us where we are. Are we as a community ready to move forward?

edit
sorry to anyone who thought I directly addressed you as a problem because of the username tag. I assumed you guys would pick it up. fixed.


Last edited by LoneVampire on Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by Apple on Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:26 pm

Maybe. Some of the change that people have attempted in the past wasn't exactly for the better. Line Rider 2: Unbound, for example. We were given crazy amounts of freedom in that game. Tons of new line types, color scenery, multiple riders... It was supposed to be the best thing ever. It was fun, but nobody really loved it like they did the original. Nobody could leave the black and white beautifully simple original game. So I'm not totally on board just changing this game so suddenly, because it has been attempted in the past. So, what makes these changes so much better than the others?

So to answer you, why should I?

Edit: Oh, you referenced Unbound up there. Didn't get it until now. But I'm still curious. What do you have to offer?
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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by gaoyubao on Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:35 pm

It also takes some open-mindedness to realize LR is pretty good where it stands. Sure, for a coder, it might be a bit stale, but I do like the black-and-white, 2D, only-three-line-types design of the toy.
I feel like the only things that could be added are on the recording/editing/final production side of LR, with technical features like in-game recording, etc.

As for making LR better for self expression, maybe making it look prettier? I have no idea what that would mean... maybe more square ends to lines or something. Make bosh look handsome...r.

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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by LineMagiX on Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:46 pm

Hey, welcome back! Very Happy Good luck!

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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by JealousCloud on Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:52 pm

I'm not InXile. I don't plan on bastardizing the game for the sake of onboarding children for profit. Which the game felt like, at least to me, and at least one or two others have said so as well. I've been here since just about the start. I care about what the community thinks, and I'm confident I wouldn't release something less than par. That's all I can say.

@gaoyubao
I can see your point of view, and will certainly take that into consideration. The only thing I have to add is that it's important we remember that I'm not replacing line rider. The original toy will always hold its own weight and stand for itself. Everybody loves it. But it is my opinion that moving forward would not be a bad idea, presently.

Online collab support is pretty much top priority to me. Recording, a scenery editor, and other final production things are certainly on my mind. I have many ideas, and many that have been introduced, mentioned, etc in other parts of the forum that I very well might implement my own take on, but I'm getting ahead of myself.
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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by hypothet on Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:59 pm

Test shit out. Get things massively wrong, then fix them. We as a community won't be going anywhere right now.

That said, (on our end with LR) there's definitely a balance between limitation and creativity which many members here hold dear, and I'd say that while perhaps some of the balance is due to how we've been using the same/similar physics for years (i.e. we perceive it as balanced because of frequent playtime), keep in mind that the balance holds up fairly well regardless; maybe think about that while you're working on your project.

You're undertaking a project that's creatively very difficult to tackle, both on an abstract and concrete level.

That an unintended but fun exploit drastically increased the longevity of this toy is simply boggling. Don't hold yourself to that.

I'm probably making no sense right now. Sorry.

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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by [senpai] kevans on Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:40 pm

First: You are aware it wasn't Inxile's fault for how poor unbound was?

Second: Why are you addressing me specifically? Why am I the problem when I've not only explained to you we're in process of fixing it, but also invited you to help?
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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by Apple on Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:45 pm

Okay, so what are your other intentions? Kind of hard to trust you when we know nothing about it.
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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by JealousCloud on Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:54 pm

@HG42
Fantastic input, thank you.
@kevans
Would you care to elaborate about it not being InXile's fault unbound failed?
You're in no way the problem, I apologize if it seemed as though I thought that. The community has actively shut down your ideas in the past, is what I was getting at.
@shua
It's hard to explain without making promises I won't stay to. I can only speak broadly until I have a release candidate, but I'm trying not to be over-ambitious and post in the development section and be shut down instantly.
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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by [senpai] kevans on Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:57 pm

Inxile had stated that they had to rush the product out the door due to publisher's demanding a product. Isn't exactly easy making sure the game has the quality fans want when your job depends on making sure you have a product in time.
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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by Apple on Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:57 pm

LoneVampire wrote:
...I'm trying not to be over-ambitious and post in the development section and be shut down instantly.

Okay, I totally get this post now. I'm skeptical it will be a success, I will say that. But I won't pass negative judgement on anything until I see more. You've got me curious now. When can we expect to see an update in this project?
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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by rabid squirrel on Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:24 pm

Dude, if you want us to accept your build, don't attack everyone before even telling us what it is. Accusing us all of blocking progress before you even tell us what the specific goals of this build are (beyond vague things like "not like Unbound"), is not exactly going to persuade us to your cause.

Not to mention that was really inflammatory use of the username tag in the OP. I thought for sure you were accusing me of blocking any progress on builds until I hit the reply button.

If you want us to like your build, tell us what things you're doing that are new, and what features you're going to get rid of, if any (in the version dev section, btw). Or better yet, give us an alpha build for feedback. That's the only way to do this. You can't preemptively attack us for hating a build we know nothing about.

EDIT: also, just want to say that in no way will I be censoring your build, if you are worried about that. The only issue may be the line that is drawn about what can be posted in the tracks section vs the oddballs section, but give it time and the issue will decide itself.


Last edited by rabid squirrel on Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by [senpai] kevans on Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:29 pm

God damn it, that was the username tag? I didn't think twice because I knew the dude was new and didn't know to call me kev yet.

Now I'm really skeptical about what you're trying to do here.
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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by rabid squirrel on Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:39 pm

[senpai] kevans wrote:God damn it, that was the username tag?
Yep. I didn't realize it until I quoted him

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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by theacp127 on Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:42 pm

I think some testing should be done to see what has been done already. I don't mine playing around with new stuff and even if things don't work out I'll be willing to make a track in your build for fun at least. Smile

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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by theacp127 on Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:44 pm

rabid squirrel wrote:
[senpai] kevans wrote:God damn it, that was the username tag?
Yep. I didn't realize it until I quoted him
Lol I noticed because no one would actually mention me in anything.

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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by Getthim on Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:20 am

theacp127 wrote:
rabid squirrel wrote:
[senpai] kevans wrote:God damn it, that was the username tag?
Yep. I didn't realize it until I quoted him
Lol I noticed because no one would actually mention me in anything.
Same, though i kinda know lonevampire from IRtL years ago

i am very curious about this and will help any way i can, as acp said early i will definitely try it out for fun,

I think you will do well, so good luck Thumbs Up

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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by Sheldon on Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:31 am

Never been a fan of none-vanilla builds. Only thing I will use is builds with better editing tools. If I wanted free rider I'd play free rider. You are on a line rider forum, based around beta 2 we have been around for almost 10 years, and we are still okay with playing the same game our roots are based on. I atleast have no intention to change, but if you can improve how we use beta 2, thats be great. Very Happy
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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by gaoyubao on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:04 am

Sheldon wrote:none-vanilla builds.
¿what qualifies as vanilla?

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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by [senpai] kevans on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:24 am

gaoyubao wrote:
Sheldon wrote:none-vanilla builds.
¿what qualifies as vanilla?

Anything Fsk or inxile made. Vanilla is a programming term meaning comes from the creators of or mirrors the original program. IE My builds use vanilla physics, but most of the tools no longer function as vanilla.
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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by JealousCloud on Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:48 pm

I'm really sorry to anyone who felt personally targeted by the username tag. I truly was not trying to attack anyone in any way.
That said, I've gotten the input I needed from this thread. I'm not going to hype anything until I have it in my hands, simply because nobody likes a letdown. I'll let an alpha do the talking, when it's ready.

If a mod wants to close this, it couldn't hurt.
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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by LineRiderGjert on Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:49 pm

I would love to see a relatively normal version of LR with layers. Like, maybe three layers you can switch between. The middle one would be the normal layer, in which you make the track itself. Then you can add things in the foreground layer (with the same line thickness), and make a shape (with the normal line tool (drawing a closed rock-section for example)) that fills in with white, so Bosh goes behind it. It's been done with animation before, but I think it would open up a lot of doors for creative scenery if it was built into the game. Then of course a background layer (with thinner lines), that doesn't really move that much compared to the rest.
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Re: Important: Moving forward

Post by Getthim on Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:53 pm

LineRiderGjert wrote:I would love to see a relatively normal version of LR with layers. Like, maybe three layers you can switch between. The middle one would be the normal layer, in which you make the track itself. Then you can add things in the foreground layer (with the same line thickness), and make a shape (with the normal line tool (drawing a closed rock-section for example)) that fills in with white, so Bosh goes behind it. It's been done with animation before, but I think it would open up a lot of doors for creative scenery if it was built into the game. Then of course a background layer (with thinner lines), that doesn't really move that much compared to the rest.
this sound really nice,

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