They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

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They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by efrazable on Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:13 pm

They Ride
the Lines

a reflection


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ8dG29825Q

Spoiler:
I didn't want to have this text interrupt the thread, so I put it here! 8D

I'm not sure which category to put this in, but the same section as the tidbits and previews doesn't really feel right. Mods, feel free to keep it here or put it wherever.

The movie is sort of like a commentary on the relationship between quirk and scenery, but at the same time a reflection of the history of Line Rider. I'm not sure if it came out that way, but that's what I shot for.

Also nothing against quirk, but scenery is awesome AND accessible. As I was editing the quirk sections, a friend was looking on my screen and complained how stupid the whole quirk looked. She obviously had no idea what was going on. It's sort of like a stream of consciousness book, you need some background and analysis to follow it, but it's truly enjoyable and engaging otherwise.

Dat scenery tho.

Idk if I should have had a shoutout section at the end, but it felt right. If you weren't included, sry.

And I hope HG reads this part, because he was the first one to-- repeatedly-- recruit me into the community. If you look at the comments of my old videos, HG, along with Lankher and TigerLine, asked me to join, and I ended up having the time of my life here on WRTL. 8D

Also I hope you guys liked it coz it's the community that inspired me! Smile

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by Apple on Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:28 pm

Holy crap that was awesome. The way you synced that with the music was lovely; It really fit the tracks well. I actually liked the heavy scenery in this! It kind of inspired me to start scening again. Try to make a track that the people that played 5 years ago would be proud of.

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by iPi on Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:29 pm

This is beautiful.
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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by Chuggers on Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:30 pm

this is the best thing ever

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by Sheldon on Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:48 pm

YOU PUT MY TRACKS IN THE SAME VIDEO AS SCENERY Angry Angry Angry Angry
Spoiler:
lol at credits thanks to quirkers for not getting offended awesome compilation
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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by roflmaoqwerty on Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:24 pm

Your friendly neighbourhood quirker offers his 2 cents worth:

First off, let me be clear: I LOVE this video. You are an indisputable master of cinematography, and you managed to tell a very powerful story about the history, diversity, and current state of the toy we know and love. I thoroughly enjoyed watching this (have done so twice already), and plan to do so several times more. Furthermore, I've always been an admirer of sceners and their creations; though I'll admit I have neither the artistic chops nor the dedication to see my own fledgling scenery projects through, I hold scenery tracks in an esteem equal, even oftentimes superior, to the quirks I personally create and those that typify our modern era. This, however, is where the issue lies.

The overarching sentiment - and message - I got from this piece was that scenery is a viable form of artistic expression in the toy of Line Rider, and I wholeheartedly agree with this. However, I felt that it was being further claimed that scenery is the one true form of Line Rider artistry, in stark contrast to the quite literal cacophony of quirk. It seemed to me as if the picture of modern quirk were being painted as a sort of bastardization of the purity of this simple toy, an atrocity committed by the modernists, the progressives, those who are willing to sacrifice the existing conventions of "art" in a brazen attempt to find their own. I nearly gained the impression that the "battle" of quirk vs. scenery was being metamorphosed into a true battle, the classic case of a rebellious youthful counterculture clashing against the sophisticated and set-in-their-ways old guard. I quite honestly felt vilified by this depiction; I feel a sort of guilt for being a quirker, as my style of choice now resembles little more than an innovation-based cover-up for my apparent lack of true artistry.

So I'm a quirker. So I'm the reason for the annihilation of the innocence of the sceners' world of Line Rider's early years. So, most importantly, I'm the catalyst for Line Rider's evolution into a culture of oneupmanship and the blind rush for progress, rather than the decadence and decay of a stagnant art form. The first quirkers were the ones who bit the proverbial apple in the Garden of Eden; with their free decision to openly disobey all that they have ever known, they unlock the never-ending quest for knowledge at the price of the permanent loss of their initial state of purity. To sceners, this is the tragic fall of our culture and our society; to quirkers, it is the beginning of the greatest adventure we can seek. I champion my forefathers' decision to bend and break the rules of the game we've played for some time now, as while it may have detracted from the original state of the art form, it has also opened up innumerable avenues for progress, many of which we have explored, and many more of which hold the thrill of discovery that drives me and my fellow quirkers to continue playing Line Rider.

This entire comparison begs the question, however: How much progress is too much? This, I believe, is where the debate of quirk vs. scenery in the modern era comes to a head. Each member of our community, much like representatives of the various faiths of the real world, believes that although other means to creation and artistry (salvation) may exist, their brand of choice happens to be that much more ideal than the others they have encountered. As I stated before, I hold scenery in an extremely high esteem, occasionally more so than the quirk that I call home; however, what alienates me from many sceners (and even some quirkers who attempt to establish conventions within the genre) is my belief that progress is what fuels our creations, rather than attempts to execute a predestined set of rules more perfectly than the last track. I would personally much rather see a new trick never done before that is done somewhat sloppily than to see a timeworn trick executed nearly flawlessly; in a similar vein, I appreciate innovative scenery of a decent quality far more than even the most beautiful examples of a cliché style. This, again, all boils down to the central argument of Line Rider, at least in my eyes: at what point does the price of progress become too great?

A point such as this is nigh-impossible to precisely identify, and I certainly do not claim to do so, even for my own creative ends; I simply find a certain inexplicable beauty in progress and innovation, one that manifests itself most clearly in modern quirk. In keeping with the maxim that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder," perception is everything, even in this tight-knit and small community. I see none of the harsh, grating brute force that this video suggested was the essence of quirk; instead, I perceive the ingenuity that has gone into the creation of these admittedly abstruse tracks, and I enjoy this. Even if at times I struggle to comprehend what goes on in some quirks, I find an enjoyment in this as well; the quest for knowledge is what drives my trackmaking and my search for the next new trick or some creative innovation, no matter its complexity.

This begets a final question: is the accessibility of art reflective upon its quality? I disagree, instead claiming that we all have some sort of drive to understand that which we do not. Modern art, in all its abstractness and occasional pretentiousness, offers little on the surface but in truth stimulates thinking, perception, and appreciation on a deeper level. In many ways, modern quirk is the same. The general public will look at a quirk and have no idea what's going on, but at the same time, something will inspire them to want to understand it; they will develop an interest, a curiosity, and a desire to learn (and perhaps themselves create or emulate) that are simply not evoked by the blatant beauty (though beauty nonetheless) of traditional art forms, be it a Renaissance painting or a classic scenery track.

I do not intend to assert in any capacity that quirk is superior to scenery; as a matter of fact, I hold the comparison to be a plain case of apples-to-oranges, and therefore refuse to formulate any arguments in defense of the superiority of either incomparable style. Similarly, I don't want to be misconstrued as elitist, claiming that there is a deeper beauty that only the "intellectual elite" can perceive in quirk; this is also entirely untrue, as I have previously claimed that even the people least acquainted with Line Rider experience the certain piquing of curiosity we all share upon viewing a quirk. All I'm attempting to explain is that yes, there is some imperceptible form of beauty in quirk, and the style as a whole does not intend to usurp scenery or to destroy its artistic foundations, but rather to serve as an innovative complement to an existing traditional style. I simply felt that this video, masterful as it was, somewhat erroneously depicted the contrast of quirk and scenery as one of irreconcilable animosity and conflict, rather than one of creative symbiosis and complementarity.

TL;DR: No. There is none. I put a lot of effort into this. Read it. Thank you.

I love you Efraz. Holy shit I'm tired.


Last edited by roflmaoqwerty on Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by ACwazHere on Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:48 pm

Man that was an awesome watch. Made me smile so hard. If anybody asks me "What is so good about that stupid game", I'm gonna show them this. Smile

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by hypothet on Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:08 pm

I like the video, but not my interpretation of the message.

Good work.

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by rabid squirrel on Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:27 am

Oh my god.

I'm in complete shock. I can't remember the last time a video (any video) shook me right down to my bones.

......I have no words, except thank you. Thank you so much for creating this.

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by Conundrumer on Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:46 am

i leave for 1 month and then this happens

after 1 second of the video playing i had to stop the video and think to myself "wow someone actually did it" and prepare myself for what was goign to happen because i know that we dont make mediocre things

this was really amazing like i was visibly gasping and covering my mouth IRL
this is like the perfect thing to introduce people to the history of LR, better than evolution of LR

but i feel like we don't deserve the last section of the song, or rather, my expectation was that the quirk and the scenery and the flow should have merged into something that makes sense, just like what happens in the music (am I the only one who sees this?). I expected Bosh's movements to be similar to the middle section (maybe a little less extreme), with modern quirk and all, while integrating scenery, but in its place was dramatic scenery interrupted by brief clips of modern quirk. i don't think we have reached the point where we can do something reflective like this, so it's just like this montage was almost there and it's just like that nearly perfect thing with one glaring missing piece that we just have to figure out how to make, and instead in its place it has the substitute piece that suggests going backwards with romantic-era-esque traditional (static, without consideration of movement) graphic art.
So I guess "the music didn't sync to the flow" for the last section. I just really wanted Bosh to move more intensely than what was shown.
this is unfortunately what's stopping me from showing this to everyone, otherwise i'd be shoving it in everyone's face saying "this is what we do"
like, if the song just ended before the last section I wouldn't be complaining
To be honest, with what we have right now, the last section is as good as it can be, so I do'nt really blame you for making a poor artistic decision, since you were working with existing material. For what we have right now, you did your best, and you did a fantastic job.

Syncing a track to this song was actually something I spoke about during my interview, but I also emphasized that I really felt that we couldn't do it yet, or at least, we haven't yet developed the style that would fit this song. I really feel we don't deserve using this song. Not yet.

I was surprised this wasn't a community collaboration, that this was created as a solo project. Something like this could be so powerful in reigniting interest in Line Rider.

tl;dr this is great, but we can do better than this, but we're not there yet.

i'm all for reusing this song when the time comes
okay wow i need to get back to work sorry guys peace out cya in a month

EDIT:
context for the song's (well, album's) message: http://soundisstyle.com/2014/03/porter-robinson-sea-of-voices.html
'language' as referenced by porter robinson: https://soundcloud.com/porter-robinson/porter-robinson-language
(wow we are so far away from being able to make a track that syncs well to this song)

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by GhostY on Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:47 am

this was soo amazing, seeing things i created in this video makes me feel really good. i feel as though i played a part in the history of this game.seeing everything mixed in to one big video made me feel extremely nostalgic, there would be a brief couple seconds of a track and i would immediately be taken to the time i first watched that track, and this happened over and over with each passing track. so basically my mind was blown. This video is incredible <3

also i see what you put there @3:50 Hehe

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by Getthim on Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:46 am

WOWEE Inverted Onoz, it was amazing Shocked, glad i made a contribution 8D, and manualers don't mind cos there were manuals within the scenery Hehe

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by Rafael on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:34 am

That was beautiful and touched me to the bone. There's so much truth in this, especially looking at the past few years. Thanks for making this <3

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by Helios Pavonine on Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:12 pm

Wow. This moved me so much xD I actually had the urge to cry, so beautiful...

Also I must admit seeing my name in between all those Line Rider legends made me really happy Very Happy Thank you, efraz.

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:27 pm

After reading the thread where everybody is arguing over everything and then watching this, I've had enough emotions for the da-... year. Will edit when not ready to sleep after a tiring sobbing session lel

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by efrazable on Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:46 pm

Thank you guys so much for the feedback! (and rofl's interpretation was pretty spectacular, gotta say)
shua wrote:It kind of inspired me to start scening again. Try to make a track that the people that played 5 years ago would be proud of.
ACwazHere wrote:Made me smile so hard. If anybody asks me "What is so good about that stupid game", I'm gonna show them this. Smile
GhostY wrote:seeing everything mixed in to one big video made me feel extremely nostalgic, there would be a brief couple seconds of a track and i would immediately be taken to the time i first watched that track, and this happened over and over with each passing track. so basically my mind was blown. This video is incredible <3
This was really what I was going for when I started making this, and these responses are more than I expected! thanks!  Panic
Sheldon wrote:YOU PUT MY TRACKS IN THE SAME VIDEO AS SCENERY Angry Angry Angry Angry
lol'd a little bit  :P
Sheldon wrote:lol at credits thanks to quirkers for not getting offended awesome compilation
yeah, i may have spoken too soon. we'll see  :O
rabid squirrel wrote:Oh my god.

I'm in complete shock. I can't remember the last time a video (any video) shook me right down to my bones.

......I have no words, except thank you. Thank you so much for creating this.
i honestly didn't think it was going to be that big of a thing until i was done with it. Glad you liked it!

GhostY wrote:also i see what you put there @3:50 Hehe
If anyone's curious, I included some pre-released stuff, including CC and Ghosty's parts for EoLRS, Opal's part in the Minimalisme clan debut, and a little of Rabid's driftwood! Really cool that I was able to use those Very Happy thanks rabid!
GhostY wrote:seeing things i created in this video makes me feel really good.
Helios Pavonine wrote:Also I must admit seeing my name in between all those Line Rider legends made me really happy Very Happy Thank you, efraz.
glad to hear it! i also hope nobody was offended if their tracks weren't included.

And on that note, sorry to Gao and Shotoku. I could have sworn I put Metropolis Run in the credits but I must have forgotten it, or accidentally highlighted it, idk. sry again  Eep

EDIT: Good lord, I forgot to credit BluYX as well! Sorry ZNF!!

Well, that's bound to happen in a video like this. Don't take it personally Neutral
Dapianokid wrote:After reading the thread where everybody is arguing over everything and then watching this, I've had enough emotions for the da-... year.
I was planning on releasing this on thursday, but the tension on the site was a little troubling to me, so I released it early 8D

I'll probably reply to conun and rofl (and hg) in a separate post in a little bit; I need to think of a good way to respond concisely.

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by Getthim on Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:16 pm

and me? lol no worries about replying to my post no worries

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by rabid squirrel on Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:02 am

I don't think I can overstate how much this video means to me, actually. It's been 48 hours and I'm not even close to being able to process the emotions yet.

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by Yobanjojoe on Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:31 am

I want to show this to all of my friends. All of them.

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by rabid squirrel on Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:54 am

I just noticed there is no mention of what the music used was anywhere

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by SPL4SHZ0N3 on Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:13 am

This is wonderful, didn't take offense.

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by Z_N-Freak on Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:14 am

As I posted on youtube:

2:54

That's Bluyx!
I feel sad it wasn't mentioned in the Credits D:, yet at the same timet honored it's included in the video Smile

Amazing job dude! It was like a time-capsule, bringing back so many memories. So many emotions I felt when first watching those tracks come back to me when I watch this video. Just amazing!

rabid squirrel wrote:I just noticed there is no mention of what the music used was anywhere

Not sure if you know which song it is, (it's just one) so FYI:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ardc3nrQMxw

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by rabid squirrel on Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:23 am

Also wondering what the song is in the credits.

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Re: They Ride the Lines - A Reflection

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:46 pm

I am a quirker and I was not offended by this work of art. I shared it with all my friends and said "This is what we do."
I get where HP and Rofl are coming from in their responses, but honestly I think your depiction of the relationship between quirk as it has been for the past 2 years and scenery as a whole is closer to right on than they suggest. It's just that only very slowly has quirk become a more meaningful form of progression than just "look what I can do" with hedge randomly coming on the scene and launching us into that realm before we were ready. We're still not ready to let quirk become symbiotic with the rest of the community, I think. But it has been my well-intentioned goal since I came back to make relatable, accessible quirk. I proved I had the technique with CAF, and my first attempt in relating quirk to the whole community was in Inhibitions. We'll see how it goes as I progress.

The shift between the quirk and the scenery really felt bizarre to me. It fit perfectly with what I believe is the current attitude toward quirk in the community (even amongst quirkers) but I also felt like it portrayed this image about us that is inaccurate. I feel like that's on us, though. We're really abstract and hard to handle intellectually because we often say things that are not in alignment with the forms we make our tracks take on. Or, they are in alignment and it is just so hard to grasp a lot of the things going on in quirk for non-quirkers that we have created inaccessible art and what we say then becomes a moot point anyway. One notable example is in Creation, in which Chuggers created the most bombtastic rotational effects ever conceived and nobody ever caught it because of how fast it happens. I dream of a day when people call Creation "smooth."

I don't know what else to say, really. We're too inaccessible still and I want taht to be fixed. Thank you for this, Ethan. You've outdone yourself.

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Answers ;I

Post by efrazable on Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:50 pm

roflmaoqwerty wrote:The overarching sentiment - and message - I got from this piece was that scenery is a viable form of artistic expression in the toy of Line Rider, and I wholeheartedly agree with this. However, I felt that it was being further claimed that scenery is the one true form of Line Rider artistry, in stark contrast to the quite literal cacophony of quirk.
This is your interpretation of the video 8D

Yeah, I get that it was a bit insulting to quirkers, but I didn't really think that it was that big of a deal because a good 90% of active trackmakers quirk. If the message was outright offensive to a minority of the community, I'd be a dick. But I thought that because so many people were quirkers these days that the community could handle the message I had for them.
So I'm a quirker. So I'm the reason for the annihilation of the innocence of the sceners' world of Line Rider's early years. So, most importantly, I'm the catalyst for Line Rider's evolution into a culture of oneupmanship and the blind rush for progress, rather than the decadence and decay of a stagnant art form. The first quirkers were the ones who bit the proverbial apple in the Garden of Eden; with their free decision to openly disobey all that they have ever known, they unlock the never-ending quest for knowledge at the price of the permanent loss of their initial state of purity.
yeah, quirkers are the devil. ya got me.

Nah, I kid. If I could have toned down the lyrics to be less critical of the antihero (quirk), then I would have. But at the same time I feel it's important to point out the marriage of the sweet harmonies with the computerized cacophony. It wasn't a triumph. It was a compromise, and I also feel that the track choices reflect this; especially my choice to put Incito Scaena at the close of the main video.
This entire comparison begs the question, however: How much progress is too much? [...]my belief [is] that progress is what fuels our creations, rather than attempts to execute a predestined set of rules more perfectly than the last track. I would personally much rather see a new trick never done before that is done somewhat sloppily than to see a timeworn trick executed nearly flawlessly; in a similar vein, I appreciate innovative scenery of a decent quality far more than even the most beautiful examples of a cliché style. This, again, all boils down to the central argument of Line Rider, at least in my eyes
I completely agree, dude! Smile
I simply felt that this video, masterful as it was, somewhat erroneously depicted the contrast of quirk and scenery as one of irreconcilable animosity and conflict, rather than one of creative symbiosis and complementarity.
I disagree, but I pointed out the combination of quirk and scenery at the end already. Although at the same time, I would agree that I should have emphasized this further before my final cut. Also I would have certainly included Phunner (my favorite track evarrrr) in the video to celebrate this, but it just didnt' fit. Maybe I didn't try hard enough to do this. Maybe the downfall of the video is the narrow perspective, but I still like the final product none-the-less
I love you Efraz. Holy shit I'm tired.
<3

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HG42 wrote:I like the video, but not my interpretation of the message.

Good work.
Well, I'm glad you're honest! I assume it was similar to rofl's interpretation, so I'll let you read through my response to him. Smile

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Conundrumer wrote:this was really amazing like i was visibly gasping and covering my mouth IRL
this is like the perfect thing to introduce people to the history of LR, better than evolution of LR
i wouldn't go that far, but thanks so much!
but i feel like we don't deserve the last section of the song, or rather, my expectation was that the quirk and the scenery and the flow should have merged into something that makes sense, just like what happens in the music [...] Syncing a track to this song was actually something I spoke about during my interview, but I also emphasized that I really felt that we couldn't do it yet, or at least, we haven't yet developed the style that would fit this song. I really feel we don't deserve using this song. Not yet.
Actually I had no idea you had a similar idea to mine. Essentially, I did this thing on my own, and I started it four or five months ago. It started out as a scenery project synced to "Sad Machine" that I really didn't like that much, so I moved on to this song, "Fellow Feeling". After a little bit of work, I concluded the song didn't really fit well with my direction, but I had a cool idea for a chronology of Line Rider with the video, so I used it and told the story I wanted to tell.
I was surprised this wasn't a community collaboration, that this was created as a solo project. Something like this could be so powerful in reigniting interest in Line Rider.
Well, every community collaboration is only edited by one person Wink
tl;dr this is great, but we can do better than this, but we're not there yet.

i'm all for reusing this song when the time comes
IMO your direction described might be better served with his song "Sea of Voices", which I have no doubt you've heard, but I think "Fellow Feeling" shows two conflicting forces coming together to make something great, whereas "Sea of Voices" could be used to showcase a history and still have a positive outlook on all parts of it. hopefully it would portray the community in a better light as well.

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Getthim wrote:WOWEE Inverted Onoz, it was amazing Shocked, glad i made a contribution 8D, and manualers don't mind cos there were manuals within the scenery Hehe
Wow thanks 8D

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rabid squirrel wrote:I just noticed there is no mention of what the music used was anywhere
The song is Porter Robinson's "Fellow Feeling" followed by excerpts of "Goodbye to a World". His whole "Worlds" album is fantastic, but I'd also recommend "Divinity", "Sad Machine", "Polygon Dust", and "Sea of Voices"! Although it is fairly popular, I'm surprised you haven't heard either of the songs!

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Z_N-Freak wrote:That's Bluyx!
I feel sad it wasn't mentioned in the Credits D:, yet at the same timet honored it's included in the video Smile

Amazing job dude! It was like a time-capsule, bringing back so many memories. So many emotions I felt when first watching those tracks come back to me when I watch this video. Just amazing!
I'm also sorry to Shotoku and Gaoyubao for forgetting to credit them for Metropolis Run Sad. On the plus side, I gave all three of you a shout-out, if that's cool :/

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Dapianokid wrote:I am a quirker and I was not offended by this work of art. I shared it with all my friends and said "This is what we do."
I get where HP and Rofl are coming from in their responses, but honestly I think your depiction of the relationship between quirk as it has been for the past 2 years and scenery as a whole is closer to right on than they suggest. It's just that only very slowly has quirk become a more meaningful form of progression than just "look what I can do"
This was pretty close to my goal, but you are correct. Quirk can tell a story, but it's harder to find, and infinitely harder to tell.
Ethan
:|

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Incredible responses, guys! 8D

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