Reminder: This is not a democracy

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Opal Rider on Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:48 am

@Rafael wrote:
@Inukaza wrote:Making mistakes is something that happens to everyone. The shitty thing is using your position's power to upheld something non-beneficial to the community. Rabid, we're not getting new members. You're here to please us, the community. Don't confuse that.

My point is that you have lost all social power as admin. You have physical power over site functions, however, nobody takes you seriously. You're like the boss who only wants to be friends.
Oh I didn't know managing this site is his job. Do you pay him? As far as I knew, rabid is here to have fun just to have fun like everyone else here. The fact that he does so much for the site is a blessing from the skies because without this man, there would be no WRtL and LR would've been dead for over 5 years now. I think you're the one who's alienated here, because obviously you have no idea what's happening here. The audacity you have to interact with this site for the first time in ages and pretend you know everything.

As someone who was asked to try and help out with the goings on around the site, I'm willing to stand up for Inu in that he probably had the most unbiased view of the goings on so far. Out of all the people on the site, I'd be willing to believe that Rabid knows more than any of us here the requirements of running the site, and is definitely the most equipped out of all of the staff to do it because of this. Keeping other members of the community happy is huge when you're trying to make something run smoothly, and I don't see how you can't do that and have fun yourself at the same time. He wouldn't put so much work into it if he didn't love what he does too. Yes, we're here for the community. And sometimes we move threads around to make it easier for the community to navigate the page. I wasn't around when the thread was moved, I don't know who said what afterwards in chat, or how quickly the situation escalated. But I do know a lot of this could be avoided if we just worked things out like normal people for once.

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Yobanjojoe on Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:11 am

Let's be 100% real here, who else has the time, patience and mental focus to do half the shit rabid does for us and puts up with for us. He's taking time out of his own life literally for us to keep this community going, and I honestly think he's doing an excellent job considering all the pressure he's been put under these past years.

Honestly I would straight up just have given up by now if I was in his position, I can really only imagine how much effort he puts in for this community. If you don't like something that's happened it's not hard to give a friendly reminder, instead of going straight head over heels into a massive rage and flipping out insults and shit, if something happens which you don't like.

I really have no problem with the way the site is being run, and I really have no idea why people need to get so worked up about small things, which then turn into unnecessarily large ugly things. I understand that this game means a lot to most people here, but there's really no need to get worked up about mistakes, which can EASILY be fixed if you stayed calm and try your best to be nice about it.


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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Rafael on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:26 am

@Opal Rider wrote:
@Rafael wrote:
@Inukaza wrote:Making mistakes is something that happens to everyone. The shitty thing is using your position's power to upheld something non-beneficial to the community. Rabid, we're not getting new members. You're here to please us, the community. Don't confuse that.

My point is that you have lost all social power as admin. You have physical power over site functions, however, nobody takes you seriously. You're like the boss who only wants to be friends.
Oh I didn't know managing this site is his job. Do you pay him? As far as I knew, rabid is here to have fun just to have fun like everyone else here. The fact that he does so much for the site is a blessing from the skies because without this man, there would be no WRtL and LR would've been dead for over 5 years now. I think you're the one who's alienated here, because obviously you have no idea what's happening here. The audacity you have to interact with this site for the first time in ages and pretend you know everything.

As someone who was asked to try and help out with the goings on around the site, I'm willing to stand up for Inu in that he probably had the most unbiased view of the goings on so far. Out of all the people on the site, I'd be willing to believe that Rabid knows more than any of us here the requirements of running the site, and is definitely the most equipped out of all of the staff to do it because of this. Keeping other members of the community happy is huge when you're trying to make something run smoothly, and I don't see how you can't do that and have fun yourself at the same time. He wouldn't put so much work into it if he didn't love what he does too. Yes, we're here for the community. And sometimes we move threads around to make it easier for the community to navigate the page. I wasn't around when the thread was moved, I don't know who said what afterwards in chat, or how quickly the situation escalated. But I do know a lot of this could be avoided if we just worked things out like normal people for once.
Unbiased? He said rabid has no social power at all and that no one on this site takes him seriously. That's not unbiased. Can I deduce from this that you agree with him?
I consider rabid my friend and take him very seriously. I don't really see what the rest of your post has to do with mine, I never said he didn't have fun managing this site. All I'm saying is that he's not obligated to do anything. If he doesn't have fun managing the site anymore, he has every right to quit. People are talking about rabid's position as if it's easy to do what he does, as if he doesn't deserve any respect. Yoban hit the nail on the head. Respect the man who has singlehandedly kept this community alive, who has had more influence on this toy for the past years than everyone else.
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Lukking on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:32 am

Im not allowed to disagree with your actions? i guess ima leave then.

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Sheldon on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:35 am

supreme overlord rabid squirrel all bow down wrote:If anything this is more lenient than most, allowing public discussion of staff policies and such)
BS BS BS
You post any thread any post against ANY admin decision, (actually only yours) The thread will be deleted, locked and you will be banned. So yeah screw you liar. (you said screw you to me before so dont dare say this is harassment)

but yeah deleting this post will only prove me right
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Apple on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:42 am

Rabid does so much for the community it's hard to wrap my head around it. Records so much crap for all of us, reviews so many tracks in crazy detail. He's basically what techdawg was to scenery and what anomaly was for track making for the community. Maybe he makes mistakes, and who could blame him for getting frustrated? It feels like he is always completely booked and does it for the community.

Some of you have reason to be frustrated with him I get that. But it seems that you guys never appreciate what he does for this community to begin with. It may just be me, but I think that Rabid has made a far more positive impact on this community than a negative one.

Also, I think everyone is making a slightly bigger deal out of things than they should be. But whatever. That's what the internet is for. All I'm trying to say is even if you don't agree with some of the things Rabid does, you have to at least respect him for what he does.


Last edited by shua on Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Sheldon on Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:01 am

Big deal? Rabid basically said we have no say over this COMMUNITY

1.
a group of people living in the same place or having a particular characteristic in common.
"Rhode Island's Japanese community"
synonyms: group, body, set, circle, clique, faction; More

2.
a feeling of fellowship with others, as a result of sharing common attitudes, interests, and goals.
"the sense of community that organized religion can provide"

Not giving us a say in governing decisions does not make this a community, that is a euphemism. He certainly has contributed to HIS FORUM.
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Wolf_Spirit on Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:31 am

@Sheldon wrote:Big deal? Rabid basically said we have no say over this COMMUNITY
Did he? Did he really? I'm fairly sure he said that if you want a say, it should be done like this:
@rabid squirrel wrote:If you disagree with something that I do as an admin, here are some things you can do:
- Ask me if I did something/why I did it in the chat. (reminder, I do not have to answer in any particular way, or at all)
- Post a thread expressing concerns or questions about a policy in general for public discussion. (Reminder, I do not have to respond and I reserve the right to lock or delete the thread)
- Send me a PM asking for more details on why I acted the way I did in any particular instance or attempting to convince me that that my actions were unjust or inconsistent, in a respectful way
Which, in all honestly, isn't much to ask at all. That's how you treat a person, you ask with a certain level of respect, which is just the amount of respect you have for another human being, and shit is going to get done. Never have I seen anyone complain that rabid or an admin hasn't done anything they were asked. If that was the problem, yeah, we'd be dealing with a whole load of shit right now, well deserved too. But the thing is, you can actually ask like a normal person instead of going all rant-mode in the chat or making threads.
Just a simple PM will go a long way, but really, when does that happen?

@Sheldon wrote:Not giving us a say in governing decisions does not make this a community, that is a euphemism. He certainly has contributed to HIS FORUM.
You do understand what these 'decisions' are, right? It's just like, moving a thread, or deleting a post. With our tiny community, we don't exactly have huge things happening daily.
If our actions were to be questioned 24/7, then what's the point of earning the role of admin/mod when no-one can trust our decisions? I'm fairly sure that the time we've served in these roles SHOULD give a certain amount of trust and respect which, yeah, I do see from some people, but it doesn't seem like enough.

Also this:
@Yobanjojoe wrote:Let's be 100% real here, who else has the time, patience and mental focus to do half the shit rabid does for us and puts up with for us. He's taking time out of his own life literally for us to keep this community going, and I honestly think he's doing an excellent job considering all the pressure he's been put under these past years.

And Inu, this really isn't cool.
@Inukaza wrote:Making mistakes is something that happens to everyone. The shitty thing is using your position's power to upheld something non-beneficial to the community. Rabid, we're not getting new members. You're here to please us, the community. Don't confuse that.

My point is that you have lost all social power as admin. You have physical power over site functions, however, nobody takes you seriously. You're like the boss who only wants to be friends.
You do realise that you're talking to another person here? Not some sort of robot who's sole function is to run a forum? This sort of shit here is why people leave and can really drag people down emotionally.
In all this time, rabid could have decided 'I want to leave.' After all the shit that he takes, all the criticism, everything. But he hasn't left, I think that deserves a whole load of respect right there.
Seriously, think about who you're talking to and what you're saying.

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by LineRiderGjert on Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:51 am

@Sheldon wrote:Big deal? Rabid basically said we have no say over this COMMUNITY

1.
a group of people living in the same place or having a particular characteristic in common.
"Rhode Island's Japanese community"
synonyms: group, body, set, circle, clique, faction; More

2.
a feeling of fellowship with others, as a result of sharing common attitudes, interests, and goals.
"the sense of community that organized religion can provide"

Not giving us a say in governing decisions does not make this a community, that is a euphemism. He certainly has contributed to HIS FORUM.

I feel like one point hasn't been made clear enough: Rabid CREATED this forum. You're damn right it's HIS FORUM.

However, it's a community as well. Your two definitions does nothing but prove that. We are (1) a group of people gathering in one place because we all have or have had a passion for Line Rider in common. As for your second defintion,
religion is specifically listed as an example. What is religion if not a dictatorship? If you haven't felt a sense of fellowship here, that is on you, not Rabid. I know for a fact that this site has meant, and continues to mean a lot, to a lot of people. It has even been pointed out in this very thread.

If Rabid decides tomorrow that this is to be a place of worship to him, he has that right. Of course, that would probably result in the majority of users leaving the site, which is their right. See the difference? If you came here for some sort of power, you have beyond missed the point.

This is a place where you can come to interact with people who share a common interest. You can't simply walk into someone else's domain and demand to partake in how it's run. If you have a problem with how things are done, your only right is to leave. However, Rabid has been very generous, and decided that he happily listens to constructive feedback, because he actually cares what we think. All he asks is that the feedback remains constructive.

As Rabid himself said, if you aren't happy with how things are done, you are free to make your own forum. The fact that you are interested in Line Rider does in no way whatsoever correlate to you having any say in how a particular community regarding the subject is run, no matter how long you've been here or what you've done.

Rabid, I think you've done an amazing job with this forum. You've created and maintained something that has meant a whole lot to a whole lot of people. Having seen what some people have said, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that you've saved lives. That is a lot more than many people can account for in a lifetime. I hope you keep up the amazing work, and I am more than greateful for everything you've done here. You are a beast!
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Sheldon on Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:18 am

I am upset that I got banned for arguing my opinion, sorry. And my friend had a thread removed stating how irrational my ban was, you cant question a ban well thats bullshit no checks and balances. I'm not saying im in the right, and my ban was EXTENDED for harassing rabid, that is my fault. I just don't think I should have been banned for defending my opinion.
I think rabid is biased toward me, and there really isn't anything I can do about it. He runs the forum well no question about it, he just deals with individuals innapproriately.
sorry for any inconvenience or misunderstanding my anger is getting to me I should get over it its in the past buts thats not to say someone will get unjustly banned again.

Also how can I PM someone if I am banned I'd rather rabid just tell me to stop, and I will, But I didn't know what I was doing was wrong or against the rules... I don't think it was even specifically against the rules
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Rafael on Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:49 am

@Sheldon wrote:I am upset that I got banned for arguing my opinion, sorry. And my friend had a thread removed stating how irrational my ban was, you cant question a ban well thats bullshit no checks and balances. I'm not saying im in the right, and my ban was EXTENDED for harassing rabid, that is my fault. I just don't think I should have been banned for defending my opinion.
I think rabid is biased toward me, and there really isn't anything I can do about it. He runs the forum well no question about it, he just deals with individuals innapproriately.
sorry for any inconvenience or misunderstanding my anger is getting to me I should get over it its in the past buts thats not to say someone will get unjustly banned again.

Also how can I PM someone if I am banned I'd rather rabid just tell me to stop, and I will, But I didn't know what I was doing was wrong or against the rules... I don't think it was even specifically against the rules
Well, maybe he'd be nicer to you if you were more mature than to have a avatar mocking him directly and critiquing him in your signature :| Often have I had discussions with rabid, and I looked at the ones where the discussion was decent and where it went out of hand. I've learnt that he is willing to listen to anyone when addressed respectfully. From what I've heard respect wasn't present in your quarrel with him. Perhaps if you think more about how what you say comes across, you'll get a better response from him.
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Sheldon on Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:53 am

it wasnt even a quarrel with him, it was an argument with kevans. Know your facts man. And I only added that to my sig recently, also the avatar is a joke and if rabid can't see that he is unintelligent. Handling of rule breaking should be black and white, break the rules you get banned, you don't break the rules you are not banned. Its not I hate you and your post pissed me off so I am gonna ban you, or you broke the rules and I like you I am not gonna ban you.
Shouldn't work like that, sorry to break it to you. Im glad your happy being rabid's little pet.
Also not critiquing, I am pointing out his lie.

He also deleted the entire discussion that resulted in my ban, I am assuming because he knew it was unreasonable and he didn't any evidence in my favor.
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Apple on Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:42 am

@Sheldon wrote:Handling of rule breaking should be black and white, break the rules you get banned, you don't break the rules you are not banned.

But you admitted to it like a week ago in the chat that you have broken the rules before, saying that it's mostly rules that people don't really care for, specifically spamming. And you were angry for being banned. Don't give me this black and white crap. That's not what you thought last week.
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by [senpai] kevans on Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:57 am

@LineRiderGjert wrote:As Rabid himself said, if you aren't happy with how things are done, you are free to make your own forum.

Because that's worked for everyone else who tried.
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Sheldon on Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:00 am

shua that was a seperate ban... I am not arguing my case for that one, And i was spamming in an off topic thread called post as much as you can before a staff member posts and the post that set him off was a zoomed in image of my post showing the size one font saying 1 my nigga, proving that that post wasnt spam...
YOU DONT KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON BECAUSE RABID DELETED IT
get off my case seriously man
Where is your authority coming from anyways, professor plunger?
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by LineRiderGjert on Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:12 am

@Sheldon wrote:I am upset that I got banned for arguing my opinion, sorry. And my friend had a thread removed stating how irrational my ban was, you cant question a ban well thats bullshit no checks and balances. I'm not saying im in the right, and my ban was EXTENDED for harassing rabid, that is my fault. I just don't think I should have been banned for defending my opinion.
I think rabid is biased toward me, and there really isn't anything I can do about it. He runs the forum well no question about it, he just deals with individuals innapproriately.
sorry for any inconvenience or misunderstanding my anger is getting to me I should get over it its in the past buts thats not to say someone will get unjustly banned again.

I saw the original thread, and you outright bashed people. Expressing your opinion and flaming someone isn't necessarily mutually exclusive. When your arguments become ad hominem (like claiming someone hasn't ever made anything half decent), they are no longer constructive or friendly. There are no rules against expressing an opinion, only against flaming someone, and I agree with Rabid in classifying your posts as the latter.

Your friends post questioning your ban was also quite aggressive towards Rabid. If you don't feel respected by Rabid, that is probably because you often don't express your opinions in a respectful manner yourself. From everything I've gathered, Rabid is extremely just, and what you give is what you get.

I have nothing against you personally, and I think you are a great addition to this community. Just think twice about which side of the "opinion/flaming"-line your post is on before you post something, and I am sure you will find yourself feeling much more welcome here.

And Kevans, the reason that hasn't really worked out yet, is because no one has done it better than Rabid.
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by gaoyubao on Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:58 am

Jesus Christ will you guys just stop it.

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Chuggers on Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:58 am

@LineRiderGjert wrote:
And Kevans, the reason that hasn't really worked out yet, is because no one has done it better than Rabid.
it would not be hard to make a better running and more just forum than this, it's the fact that we ride the lines itself is iconic because of its past. we're running on fumes here.


also, telling us to leave and make our own site if we're unhappy is a pretty childish way of dealing with the problems of many.
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Pawel3 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:02 pm

@gaoyubao wrote:Jesus Christ will you guys just stop it.
qft. seriously

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Chuggers on Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:06 pm

If we stop now, this problem will return greater in the future. this has become a serious matter and it should be solved now.
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by [senpai] kevans on Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:07 pm

@Chuggers wrote:
@LineRiderGjert wrote:
And Kevans, the reason that hasn't really worked out yet, is because no one has done it better than Rabid.
it would not be hard to make a better running and more just forum than this, it's the fact that we ride the lines itself is iconic because of its past.  we're running on fumes here.


also, telling us to leave and make our own site if we're unhappy is a pretty childish way of dealing with the problems of many.

^

Not only that, there's too many people who are attached to this site. Tell me LRG, would you really sign up for a different LR forum just because we say we promise it can be ran better? Just for the sake of the fact that someone else is in charge? What would actually convince you to ditch this place for all good?
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by OTDE on Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:08 pm

Here's where you guys go to PMs.

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Opal Rider on Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:25 pm

@Rafael wrote:
@Opal Rider wrote:
@Rafael wrote:
@Inukaza wrote:Making mistakes is something that happens to everyone. The shitty thing is using your position's power to upheld something non-beneficial to the community. Rabid, we're not getting new members. You're here to please us, the community. Don't confuse that.

My point is that you have lost all social power as admin. You have physical power over site functions, however, nobody takes you seriously. You're like the boss who only wants to be friends.
Oh I didn't know managing this site is his job. Do you pay him? As far as I knew, rabid is here to have fun just to have fun like everyone else here. The fact that he does so much for the site is a blessing from the skies because without this man, there would be no WRtL and LR would've been dead for over 5 years now. I think you're the one who's alienated here, because obviously you have no idea what's happening here. The audacity you have to interact with this site for the first time in ages and pretend you know everything.

As someone who was asked to try and help out with the goings on around the site, I'm willing to stand up for Inu in that he probably had the most unbiased view of the goings on so far. Out of all the people on the site, I'd be willing to believe that Rabid knows more than any of us here the requirements of running the site, and is definitely the most equipped out of all of the staff to do it because of this. Keeping other members of the community happy is huge when you're trying to make something run smoothly, and I don't see how you can't do that and have fun yourself at the same time. He wouldn't put so much work into it if he didn't love what he does too. Yes, we're here for the community. And sometimes we move threads around to make it easier for the community to navigate the page. I wasn't around when the thread was moved, I don't know who said what afterwards in chat, or how quickly the situation escalated. But I do know a lot of this could be avoided if we just worked things out like normal people for once.
Unbiased? He said rabid has no social power at all and that no one on this site takes him seriously. That's not unbiased. Can I deduce from this that you agree with him?
I consider rabid my friend and take him very seriously. I don't really see what the rest of your post has to do with mine, I never said he didn't have fun managing this site. All I'm saying is that he's not obligated to do anything. If he doesn't have fun managing the site anymore, he has every right to quit. People are talking about rabid's position as if it's easy to do what he does, as if he doesn't deserve any respect. Yoban hit the nail on the head. Respect the man who has singlehandedly kept this community alive, who has had more influence on this toy for the past years than everyone else.

Everything that I said was based around what you had put in large, bold letters in the quote. I don't agree that Rabid has no social standing here, anyone who's friends with anyone has a social standing, you don't need to be a dictator for that. But by now it feels like you're just trying to drag me into the argument for the sake of arguing, so I'll stop.

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by gaoyubao on Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:26 pm

Go to a bathroom/kitchen sink. Turn the faucet on. See how there's running water?
Turn on your computer. See how you have electricity? See how YOU'RE ON THE INTERNET, which is epic in itself?
How well-paved are the roads around where you live? Look up where the closest hospital is. How well equipped is it? How far away is it?
Look through your school books. See how much information there is in there, for you to have. Millennia of research and thinking, at your fingertips.
Look at your bed.
Look at both of your hands, your twenty fingers, both of your arms, both of your legs and feet. Feel how your face is relatively intact.

Now, I realize that not all of you will have all of this stuff. But seriously. Stop it.
Are you being hunted down by someone or something whose sole goal is to murder you? How much do people on this forum hate you? How much can you hate a person, or feel hatred from a person, across the Internet?

I really hope I'm not being insensitive, but if you have the time and resources to play LR, you probably aren't suffering.

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by LineRiderGjert on Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:08 pm

@Chuggers wrote:
@LineRiderGjert wrote:
And Kevans, the reason that hasn't really worked out yet, is because no one has done it better than Rabid.
it would not be hard to make a better running and more just forum than this, it's the fact that we ride the lines itself is iconic because of its past.  we're running on fumes here.


also, telling us to leave and make our own site if we're unhappy is a pretty childish way of dealing with the problems of many.

WRtL isn't IRtL, anyone can make a similar site to IRtL if they want to, name and content-wise. Rabid was just the first and best to do so when IRtL went down, and therefore we ended up here.

@[senpai] kevans wrote:Not only that, there's too many people who are attached to this site. Tell me LRG, would you really sign up for a different LR forum just because we say we promise it can be ran better? Just for the sake of the fact that someone else is in charge? What would actually convince you to ditch this place for all good?

If I was displeased with this forum and/or thought another one was better, I would switch in a heartbeat. There is no such thing as a monopoly on LR-forums.
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

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