Reminder: This is not a democracy

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Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by rabid squirrel on Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:23 pm

I've been getting a little tired of everyone assuming that all of my actions as administrator are open for public debate in the chat, so I'd like to remind you all that this is not a democracy. It is a dictatorship.

There is nothing wrong with this because - this is important - you have a choice whether to come to this site or not, whether to participate. This means I am always going to make it a priority to keep everyone's interests at heart, because if I was mean and unpredictable and impulsive you all would leave. (Unlike say, your taxes, which you can't just say "I'll just not file my taxes this year")

It also means that I am often going to be interested in public opinion on a whole variety of things that I do. It also means that I'm going to often be interested in transparency, in explaining my actions. But - this is also important - I am not obliged to explain myself to you. I'm getting tired of people thinking they are entitled to an individual explanation from me personally, and that I must be subject to your own personal reasoning of what is just and unjust in everything I do or else that constitutes an "abuse of power". Remember, if you don't like the way I run this site, you always have a choice to visit more or less often.

If you disagree with something that I do as an admin, here are some things you can do:
- Ask me if I did something/why I did it in the chat. (reminder, I do not have to answer in any particular way, or at all)
- Post a thread expressing concerns or questions about a policy in general for public discussion. (Reminder, I do not have to respond and I reserve the right to lock or delete the thread)
- Send me a PM asking for more details on why I acted the way I did in any particular instance or attempting to convince me that that my actions were unjust or inconsistent, in a respectful way

Things to not do (I'm not gonna ban you or anything unless you take it waaaaaay too far, I'm just gonna be annoyed and/or delete the posts and/or ignore you):
- In the chat, publicly press for details, disagree with my actions, or attempt to convince me that my actions were unjust
- Post a thread about why you think one particular decision I made was unjust and/or demanding a response from me publicly
- Send me a PM that attacks me personally over a decision I made

Thanks for reading. Virtually none of this stuff will result in any serious consequences, in the most extreme examples of these you're probably only get a 2-day ban or some such. But these are the routes you should take if you want me to listen to you and consider your opinion - follow these guidelines and I will take your opinions seriously Smile

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by gaoyubao on Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:36 pm

but in any social contract doesn't the population have right to revolution? Don't actually answer that question, anyone, I don't actually care. I like that all the responsibilities are off my shoulders.

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by rabid squirrel on Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:42 pm

@gaoyubao wrote:but in any social contract doesn't the population have right to revolution? Don't actually answer that question, anyone, I don't actually care. I like that all the responsibilities are off my shoulders.
I am going to answer that actually, if you don't mind. The answer is yes! And the revolution would be starting your own line rider site and leaving WRTL Smile

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:44 pm

With your outright dictatorial expression, I have no qualms against the way you expect your subjects to interact with you. Remember, kids: You can always fight big brother, but big brother IS the bigger brother! Thumbs Up

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Helios Pavonine on Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:45 pm

@rabid squirrel wrote:
@gaoyubao wrote:but in any social contract doesn't the population have right to revolution? Don't actually answer that question, anyone, I don't actually care. I like that all the responsibilities are off my shoulders.
I am going to answer that actually, if you don't mind. The answer is yes! And the revolution would be starting your own line rider site and leaving WRTL Smile
This is sad. Very sad. I think WRTL would be a better place if it were a democracy, in fact.

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Chuggers on Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:46 pm

this is kinda messed up dude

I guess rabid is always right
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by rabid squirrel on Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:54 pm

@Helios Pavonine wrote:This is sad. Very sad. I think WRTL would be a better place if it were a democracy, in fact.
I disagree, but I will listen if you wish to elaborate.

(should we have a vote to decide if someone should get banned? should we elect an admin every year? not sure what you're thinking here)

@Chuggers wrote:this is kinda messed up dude

I guess rabid is always right
On the contrary, I make mistakes all the time. Notice how there is a whole bunch of things you can do if you disagree with me - this is because I'm not perfect and I know I make mistakes and I am actually quite interested in correcting them when I do.

Also, I want to clarify a little and say that this is how IRTL, WRTL, .org, ELR, and every other line rider site ever to exist have been run, and any other forum community on the internet, for that matter. This isn't me announcing a new policy. (If anything this is more lenient than most, allowing public discussion of staff policies and such)

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by [senpai] kevans on Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:07 pm

I think the word Rabid was looking for was "bureaucracy". Dictator just makes it sound like he's a douche.

But the the point of Rabid making this thread was that we're starting to piss him off a lot, and we're not respecting his power as admin. I don't know what happened this time, but whoever was bitching needs to man up and get over it.
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:30 pm

I think at first I completely accepted the bureaucracy established here, and then I felt equal to him and was upset. good to be reminded how puny we are compared to big brother, every once in a while! No wonder every good dictatorship has posters and armed guards at every corner to keep us in check. Imagine trying to run a dictatorship without letting people choose if they want to be a part of it for a century or more! Rabid's done a remarkable job as admin ^^

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by shammies on Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:29 pm

I gotta watch my thoughts now, don't want thought police coming after me.

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Pawel3 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:47 pm

Boop boop that's the sound of da thought police

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Sheldon on Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:06 pm

YOLO DAMNIT
Also why the heck is it in previews at has some original track material, quite a bit actually
@rafael wrote:another look at Chug's track being in Previews, I'm not the only one that disagrees anymore Wink Gaobuyao put it in better words than I did.


Last edited by Sheldon on Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:51 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Rafael on Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:03 pm

I completely agree with you, and respect you as an admin of this site. You do so much for this forum, and I understand that you don't want every thing you do to be questioned or debated. I also believe you only want what's best for all of us and that you're always open for discussion about anything, provided that it's argued properly. Maybe there could be a separate forum or thread about rule/process changing? This way you won't be bothered by peoples' opinion about your decisions when you're just chilling in the chat, and I think people will think twice before posting compared to just asking you in the chat.

That said, I think you really should take another look at Chug's track being in Previews, I'm not the only one that disagrees anymore Wink Gaobuyao put it in better words than I did.
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by efrazable on Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:04 pm

The shift in the community's role regulating itself is creating tension. It happens any time a social change occurs, and it should be understood.

I feel that this may have been less of an issue when there were ranks, and the elites and LCC were making a lot of decisions. When the ranks went away, a lot of the crowd-sourcing of ideas, opinions, and such had to be delegated to the entire community.

However, that's not to say the ranks should come back, I'm just pointing out that the shift in the community's structure is partly to account for the following:

-Unfair treatment of staff
-Lack of formal opinion sharing from relaxed environment
-Increases in informal opinion sharing
-Less direct treatment of these opinions because of informal format
-More frustration for some

That's not to mean we should bring the ranks back, I mean that our adjusting to the new social structure will take some getting used to. In addition, we can't have LCC because everyone's hella good, and bringing back elite would outright say "the mods respect these people more than these people".

I just mean that, in a time of transition, struggles like this are bound to occur. Dealing with them is necessary, in ways such as the new rules in the Featured Discussion section. However, it shouldn't be a constant pull from the staff to further and further regulate members (as that alienates members); opinions from the members about how to deal with those sorts of things should be heard and considered, perhaps visibly considered and discussed by staff. If their opinions or ideas are unclear or outright disrespectful, I still don't think they should be entirely ignored. Any conflicts should really be talked through, otherwise there will be more than one Lankher.

And while I agree that this thread was necessary, the title could have used work, otherwise you'll end up with posts like those above.

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Apple on Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:46 pm

Small response to Sheldon's spoiler thing that they edited out.

Spoiler:

@Sheldon wrote:
Spoiler:

I have been done injustice by this horrible way of running a forum, also thats my opinion. Smile

You admitted to breaking the rules like, 4 days ago in the chat! Claiming that (not word for word, but...) they were mostly stupid rules and nobody really cares about them. And when asked about things specifically, you wouldn't say what, because you knew you were in the wrong. You were quite literally saying that you were treated unfairly and were banned wrongfully for breaking the rules. Honestly, I think you're wrong to assume that it's okay to break the forums rules sometimes and not get banned. And it's not a one time thing. You say that it happens a lot. Maybe you should just stop breaking the rules.

Hehe, and they totally edited it out saying yolo? Wow. So you did know you were in the wrong! Seriously, stop complaining about being banned for doing things you aren't supposed to do.


Last edited by shua on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:45 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Lankher on Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:47 pm

@rabid squirrel wrote:bwah bwah bwah I can do whatever I want and you can't tell me I'm wrong or I'll ban you for 2 days maybe

and you wonder why people don't like you



@efrazable wrote:... otherwise there will be more than one Lankher.

I'm still relevant?

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by [senpai] kevans on Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:02 pm

After re-reading this thread:



I have to agree with everyone else now.
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by LineMagiX on Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:02 pm

Well it looks like a missed a fun party in the chat whenever something that caused this thread happened. o_O

all hail king rabid :P

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Inukaza on Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:19 pm

Hi Rabid.

I don't know what made you post this, but I do have a few issues with what you're saying. Please hear me out, think about, and digest my point of view.

You have caused this issue on yourself by letting the community get to a point where it's user ran. I like to compare your role as a administrator to a Camp Councilor at a summer camp. You have power, however, your job is more of a community organizer. The issue in this case is that in addition to not exercising your administrative presence in well over a while, you started to delegate responsibility that would normally be left to an admin team, like trophies.

Rabid, I like you, but don't act like a douche. This post does want me to leave and drop off the face of the earth. This rubs me the wrong way.

Let's quote you:

Rabid wrote:On the contrary, I make mistakes all the time. Notice how there is a whole bunch of things you can do if you disagree with me - this is because I'm not perfect and I know I make mistakes and I am actually quite interested in correcting them when I do.

Making mistakes is something that happens to everyone. The shitty thing is using your position's power to upheld something non-beneficial to the community. Rabid, we're not getting new members. You're here to please us, the community. Don't confuse that.

My point is that you have lost all social power as admin. You have physical power over site functions, however, nobody takes you seriously. You're like the boss who only wants to be friends.


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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by efrazable on Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:21 pm

^that seems a bit belittling IMO

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Inukaza on Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:23 pm

^I'm not agreeing with his post, and I'm not agreeing with the majority.

I'm explaining my point of view on why this post needed to be created. Unfortunately, I place blame on rabid for his own frustrations.

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by rabid squirrel on Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:02 am

Well at least now I know who likes me and who doesn't. You guys have made me feel unwanted and belittled and casually trolled for months so maybe now you can see what a taste of your own medicine feels like.

I'm not really inclined to listen to people who want to move live and let die back when most of the people (including the creator himself) are extremely belittling and obnoxious towards me personally over the subject. I think it's a deliberate troll and an attention grab.

Gonna leave this thread unlocked and I won't delete any posts from it. Won't ban anyone for anything they say in this thread. Go ahead. Bask in your hatred for me.

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by OTDE on Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:23 am

@rabid squirrel wrote:You guys have made me feel unwanted and belittled and casually trolled for months

Guys, this actually hit me hard. I came to Line Rider to get away from this shit. It was probably the only reason I didn't do a downward spiral in real life. Like, really, I like everyone here, because we all play Line Rider and that's like being a freaking blood brother at this point, but sometimes these arguments test my patience a little.

I would like to request that people not immediately devolve into personal attacks. It's the silliest, most unlikely to be fulfilled request ever, and it's really not my business to ask that of people, but this just feels like the virtual equivalent of my parents fighting, and it makes me feel sick.

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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by [senpai] kevans on Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:04 am

@rabid squirrel wrote:Well at least now I know who likes me and who doesn't. You guys have made me feel unwanted and belittled and casually trolled for months so maybe now you can see what a taste of your own medicine feels like.

I'm not really inclined to listen to people who want to move live and let die back when most of the people (including the creator himself) are extremely belittling and obnoxious towards me personally over the subject. I think it's a deliberate troll and an attention grab.

Gonna leave this thread unlocked and I won't delete any posts from it. Won't ban anyone for anything they say in this thread. Go ahead. Bask in your hatred for me.

Rabid you are literally taking this the wrong way here. You really need to stop acting like a helpless victim and start putting your god damn foot down instead of reminding us what power you posses. This thread you made here literally told everyone here that you no longer have the same weight as you did when you stood up to replace the forums. It tells everyone that you no longer have the balls to take being bitched at, called out, harassed, or whatever the fuck annoys you. And then you point out that you will let people bitch, gripe, and moan at you, but what they say can amount to a whole lot of nothing because "I HAVE THE POWER TO DELETE ANY POST AND BAN ANYONE I WANT".

If it's anything you should of learned when we would fight like children, it should of been that acting like the victim in front of everyone gets you nowhere.
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Re: Reminder: This is not a democracy

Post by Rafael on Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:22 am

@Inukaza wrote:Making mistakes is something that happens to everyone. The shitty thing is using your position's power to upheld something non-beneficial to the community. Rabid, we're not getting new members. You're here to please us, the community. Don't confuse that.

My point is that you have lost all social power as admin. You have physical power over site functions, however, nobody takes you seriously. You're like the boss who only wants to be friends.
Oh I didn't know managing this site is his job. Do you pay him? As far as I knew, rabid is here just to have fun like everyone else here. The fact that he does so much for the site is a blessing from the skies because without this man, there would be no WRtL and LR would've been dead for over 5 years now. I think you're the one who's alienated here, because obviously you have no idea what's happening here. The audacity you have to interact with this site for the first time in ages and pretend you know everything.


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