Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

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Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by Fauxfyre on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:59 am

Posting from my phone, I'll write a description later if needed, otherwise, enjoy!

http://youtu.be/4BwSQGfcK44

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by hypothet on Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:55 am

Offers a very different feel from the unscened version.

I understand that this track was a long time in the making.

Love it.

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by Z_N-Freak on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:24 am

It wasn't entirely clear at the beginning that this was the scened version of Well tempered manuals to me and I kept thinking, wow, this looks a lot like that track, Shotoku must have gotten a lot of inspiration from it, it's so similar, but so different. Amazing stuff, etc. And it turns out that it is Well-Tempered manuals and I was like, wow it's so different with the scenery! Completely different feel and it was an amazing watch. Great job man Smile

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by Wolf_Spirit on Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:43 am

Really, really love the change in perspective later in the track, really genius! Really well done and consistent with the 3D perspective, it's very difficult to get it perfectly done, and you really did!
Totally agree with this:
HG42 wrote:Offers a very different feel from the unscened version.

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by Rafael on Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:02 pm

Dude, that was awesome! I loved the way you scened all the straight lines and I especially loved the moment where the direction turned all diagonal. The roads were very well done. Only complaint, but this really bothered me, is that sometimes you didn't scene anything of the quirky bits at all. The entire track looked complete and suddenly there were those unscened parts that took me out of the moment. I think even bad attempts at hiding those lines are better than no attempt at all. Still, it was a very unique experience and the creativity was everywhere, GJ +rep +3 interwebz.

I had a feel that you started scening this track because of the idea you had with the roads, am I right? 8D
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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by Chuggers on Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:50 pm

This is a perfect example of scenery complementing a track, I had no idea he did that much recycling in the clean version.  The style of scenery also worked perfectly with the kind of track it was.  I was a little bummed you skipped the quirk part, although it would have been hell to scene within the style :P


+5 rep for accurate japanese

edit:
also +5 rep for katamari


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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:27 pm

I literally said wow fifteen times during this track
I'm sick but that's not why I loved it so much
Okay maybe it is
BUT HOLY SHIT
Track of the year award goes to this. Also just wow again

There have been fewer thigns more fun to watch than this, and those are things I didn't see coming. I saw this coming, and you've shown me stuff from this before, and I still am blown completely awy  byt his. Gao's gotten enough hype over the track that made top-5, this scenery is off the ffreaking waoll. The 45 section is what really got me, too. THe directionality of the scenery and the places you took our eyes really showed careful thought and consideration.
Also, 200,000 lines is nothing to smirk at, that's fucking Sorvius reloaded. I haven't enjoyed a new track this much, ever. I've only been arounsd for a eyar for reals, and since I joined nothing that made me go wow has been posted. I was overwhlemed by the liteny of nwe things since I left when I wathced all the new stuff, and then that feeling went away. I lost my vibe and the wow factor was gone. The excitement I had for this game began to dwindle, honestly. This brought that back. Shotoku, you win, good sir.  

+10 rep for accurate Japanese

Now scene the quirk section :|

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by roflmaoqwerty on Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:42 pm

Just when I thought WTM couldn't get any better.

It only fits that an incredible, innovative track gets equally incredible, innovative scenery, and you totally pulled it off. Can't say I've seen anything like this before, but I'm sure glad that I have now. Props to you for taking on a big challenge and delivering Thumbs Up

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by Lukking on Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:04 pm

i really like the street idea in the second half. good shit!

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by gaoyubao on Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:40 pm

Thank you so much for this Eep Panic
I won't claim the unscened parts didn't bother me, but the amount of effort and content that is offered totally wins over. Love the 3D parts in the 45° zone, and you definitely ended the track in the right place.

And I must say, this does reinforce a feeling I had while making the track, that Bosh was going up and down these gridded paths and was crossing roads above and below one another. Good job bringing that out more clearly!

+rep for strangely inaccurate clock

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by Getthim on Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:53 pm

That was blooming lovely, i loved the scenery, it compliment the track so well, tiny bit annoyed that there are some lines that you decided not to scene, especially at the clock tower, otherwise, nothing bad to say, keep scening, That monument is super awesome though, really well drawn, my favourite part of the track

McDonalds puts it best,
"Do dodo do doo, I'm Loving It!"

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by Opal Rider on Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:00 pm

The perspective change was so neat once the diagonal manuals hit. It was like we left the streets and started flying. I'm also glad that my sense of ease is rubbing off on others when it comes to criticism. It makes track making a lot more fun in the long run.

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by efrazable on Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:28 pm

Probably the biggest "well duh, feature it" since silent flame scened.

EDIT: the random unscened lines took me out some of the "feel", but from your (awesome) style, covering those up might prove difficult.

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by RyderLR on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:44 pm

Cool stuff, really a fun watch and feel

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by Fauxfyre on Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:27 pm

Kramwood wrote:very, very fun to watch good sir Very Happy
You always seem to post first on my tracks lol
HG42 wrote:I understand that this track was a long time in the making.
Mostly just because of the months on end of doing absolutely nothing
@Z_N-Freak wrote:And it turns out that it is Well-Tempered manuals and I was like, wow it's so different with the scenery! Completely different feel and it was an amazing watch. Great job man Smile
Transforming the track was my big goal, glad to hear you liked it!
@Wolf_Spirit wrote:Really, really love the change in perspective later in the track, really genius! Really well done and consistent with the 3D perspective, it's very difficult to get it perfectly done, and you really did!
Perfect is a strong word, and I like to hear this coming from an actual scenery maker.
@Rafael wrote:Only complaint, but this really bothered me, is that sometimes you didn't scene anything of the quirky bits at all. The entire track looked complete and suddenly there were those unscened parts that took me out of the moment. I think even bad attempts at hiding those lines are better than no attempt at all.
That was a big thing I wanted to try with this track. I haven't seen very many people scene flings because of obvious reasons, and I wanted to see what people thought of them just being there with the rest of the track, rather than doing a pitiful job at hiding them.
@Rafael wrote:I had a feel that you started scening this track because of the idea you had with the roads, am I right? 8D
Nope! Started with the buildings right at the beginning, particularly the second one with the loop.
@Chuggers wrote:This is a perfect example of scenery complementing a track, I had no idea he did that much recycling in the clean version.  The style of scenery also worked perfectly with the kind of track it was.  I was a little bummed you skipped the quirk part, although it would have been hell to scene within the style :P
I honestly didn't either until I started scening it xD
Also, glad somebody was able to notice the Japanese lol
Dapianokid wrote:There have been fewer thigns more fun to watch than this, and those are things I didn't see coming. I saw this coming, and you've shown me stuff from this before, and I still am blown completely awy  byt his. Gao's gotten enough hype over the track that made top-5, this scenery is off the ffreaking waoll.
Wow, that is some reaction, I know you're my biggest fan but still  :P
Dapianokid wrote:Also, 200,000 lines is nothing to smirk at, that's fucking Sorvius reloaded.
FUUUUUUU typo, I added an extra decimal place ;____; it is actually just 20,000 Sad
@roflmaoqwerty wrote:It only fits that an incredible, innovative track gets equally incredible, innovative scenery, and you totally pulled it off. Can't say I've seen anything like this before, but I'm sure glad that I have now. Props to you for taking on a big challenge and delivering Thumbs Up
Woo, I completely agree that my scenery for this is nothing if not innovative scenery. Certainly not on the LRG or Sorv level in terms of epic, but I wasn't aiming for that, you hit the nail on the head for what I wanted to get at.
@Lukking wrote:i really like the street idea in the second half. good shit!
Thanks mayne
@gaoyubao wrote:Thank you so much for this Eep Panic
lol
@gaoyubao wrote:And I must say, this does reinforce a feeling I had while making the track, that Bosh was going up and down these gridded paths and was crossing roads above and below one another. Good job bringing that out more clearly!
I got that impression from the very first time I saw the track, so you and I were on the same page the whole time  Thumbs Up
@gaoyubao wrote:+rep for strangely inaccurate clock
I have no idea what you're talking about
@Getthim wrote:That was blooming lovely, i loved the scenery, it compliment the track so well, tiny bit annoyed that there are some lines that you decided not to scene, especially at the clock tower, otherwise, nothing bad to say, keep scening
Yeah, the clocktower was the riskiest part of the unscened parts by far, not sure if it paid off at this point but I don't regret leaving it like that.
@Opal Rider wrote:The perspective change was so neat once the diagonal manuals hit.  It was like we left the streets and started flying. I'm also glad that my sense of ease is rubbing off on others when it comes to criticism. It makes track making a lot more fun in the long run.
Yeah, I try to keep that in myself, but I get kinda antsy towards the end of all my releases and start to lose it. Thanks to Efraz for reminding me not to take LR too seriously. Speaking of Efraz...
@efrazable wrote:Probably the biggest "well duh, feature it" since silent flame scened.
Yeah, we went a looooong time without anything like that, and then all the sudden boom tracks are awesome again.
@RyderLR wrote:Cool stuff, really a fun watch and feel
Them feels



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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by Yobanjojoe on Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:51 am

I'm probably going to be the only person who doesn't "love" this track.

The concept was really good and was probably perfect for WTM, however I feel it could have been executed a little bit better. I know it must of been hard to scene every bit of this track, but the unscened parts kind of ruined the experience for me.

Also some parts were very well done and looked nice, whereas other parts just looked rough and amateurish (I'm not sure whether you were going for this look though, so correct me if I'm wrong).

Other then that, this was thoroughly enjoyable and reminded me a lot of unconed (lol) and I think you should keep scening, good job Smile

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by LineMagiX on Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:42 am

What a fun little track. Smile thanks for the fun little watch

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by rabid squirrel on Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:38 pm

@efrazable wrote:Probably the biggest "well duh, feature it" since silent flame scened.
...supersonic motion?
Shotoku wrote:
Dapianokid wrote:Also, 200,000 lines is nothing to smirk at, that's fucking Sorvius reloaded.
FUUUUUUU typo, I added an extra decimal place ;____; it is actually just 20,000 Sad
I was gonna say that there was no way in hell that this was 200k xD

I'll review it soon. I enjoyed it Thumbs Up but I have a lot of other stuff to say too. (Have to say, I am a little caught off guard by the immense amount of praise. I saw it when it was just Kram's post, and definitely did not expect that to happen)

also
@Opal Rider wrote:I'm also glad that my sense of ease is rubbing off on others when it comes to criticism. It makes track making a lot more fun in the long run.
I cannot figure out what this means

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by Opal Rider on Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:09 pm

@rabid squirrel wrote:
@Opal Rider wrote:I'm also glad that my sense of ease is rubbing off on others when it comes to criticism. It makes track making a lot more fun in the long run.
I cannot figure out what this means

That is A-okay. As long as Shotoku understands, which I believe he does.

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by LineMagiX on Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:44 am

@rabid squirrel wrote:I'll review it soon. I enjoyed it Thumbs Up but I have a lot of other stuff to say too.

Inb4 "I don't like scenery inside where bosh is" :P

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Alright, seriously, let's stop this now before we set a bad example. xD


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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by rabid squirrel on Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:45 am

@LineMagiX wrote:Inb4 "I don't like scenery inside where bosh is" :P
what does that even mean

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by LineMagiX on Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:43 am

stuff like this

where bosh is riding inside the scenery. there's another term for it but i forget what it is

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Alright, seriously, let's stop this now before we set a bad example. xD


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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by rabid squirrel on Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:54 pm

Okay well this review is long overdue.

Shotoku, you are a fantastic scener. I was seriously impressed by your ability to turn this track into something that looks quite a lot like a city. Because this is the HARDEST TRACK OF ALL TIME to scene. Not kidding or exaggerating. This track has:
- Closed round-ish shapes that Bosh rides on the INSIDE of
- Enormous long straight XYZ lines everywhere, often in close proximity and parallel or perpendicular to the others
- Intersections of track the he rides on galore
- Track that stops right as it intersects other track, perpendicularly
- Loads of little quirk lines and small flings scattered throughout that are near impossible to hide with any style of scenery
- An enormous perspective shift halfway through from horizontal lines to diagonals
- Bosh passing through the same area in a million different directions
- A huge number of pinches
- Granuals galore
- XY (+Z) integration

When you have modern quirk and such, at least you can pull a GhostY and just draw random cool shit for him to travel through and it will look good, or you can just focus on making abstract stuff that Bosh interacts with in a way that looks like he's flying around in zero gravity, like FlagCapper did with Revolution. That's impossible with this track because of all the huge flat track lines and smooth curves in close proximity to the others, and the relatively compact nature of it, among all the other stuff I listed. Honestly, I think the quirk section would have been easier to scene in a lot of ways, provided that it would need to be a more abstract style.
This naked track was designed around Bosh's movement and the look of the naked track - flat lines, smooth curves, intentionally wobbly or not-wobbly manuals, and little quirk bits to move him around suddenly. Much of that has no way of being preserved by scenery no matter how skilled of a scener you are.

It saddens me that even as scenery moves from a fast-dying art form to a basically-dead art form, people still seem to think that taking celebrated quirk tracks and scening them is the way to make a good scenery track, instead of making a track with the intention of being scened. Sometimes I just want to scream "GOOD NAKED TRACKS ARE INHERENTLY BAD FOR SCENERY!" at everyone. And honestly, I find it even more disheartening how much praise this track has gotten. Scenery in Line Rider has so much more potential than scenery added (with great difficulty) to the most popular naked track of the day.

So yes, some parts of this - okay a lot of this - did look awkward and confusing, but it was not because you did a bad job scening them, but because they were all but impossible to scene in a way that actually looked good and wasn't horrendously bland.

So, in the end I am equal parts impressed with your ability, proud of you for actually finishing this, disappointed that you chose this track to scene to begin with, and disappointed that everyone loves it because it is WTM scened and nobody seems to see it as an impressive but ultimately awkward attempt to scene a naked track that IMO should never have been attempted to scene. I hope that someday people won't feel like they have to scene a popular naked track to make a good scenery track.

That is not to say I did not enjoy it. I loved seeing how you came up with extremely creative solutions to solve nightmarish problems for the scenery. The windows and archways creating a sense of depth was ingenious. Having Bosh ride on top of a series of buildings to scene the long flat lines was a great idea, though it gets awkward when we add several more parallel lines and you have to figure out how to scene those as well. The decision to use roads and sidewalks to deal with more horizontal lines higher up was another stroke of brilliance. And the telephone wire was sheer genius to scene the XY integration - this was the first time I've seen XY integration that was scened in a remotely effective manner. CC and I have had discussions about how there is literally nothing that works for XY integration... but a telephone wire! Brilliant! That was also one of the stronger moments of the track because we are able to see the wobbly nose manual in all its glory Smile

The decision to leave the quirk lines exposed was probably quite a hard decision to make, but you totally made the right decision - trying to scene them all would have been exceedingly messy and made the track much muddier and confusing to watch, and the weird things you did with perspective to make it all work are confusing enough :P

The section from the clock to the rightmost part of the track is definitely the weakest part of the track - understandably because of all the curves! What you did with the tunnels was great, though maybe a little more indication of them being tunnels with some touches of shading would have been nice. The boat is blatant riding inside of objects, but I have no idea what I would have done with that section to avoid that, so whatever. The clock is unquestionably the weakest part of the track and also the most horrible abomination of a bit of track to try to to scene. I do think you could have come up with something maybe a little more confusing or bland and it would have looked better than leaving those granuals entirely unscened. I can see you got the idea for the clock in your head and didn't want to let go of it even when it proved to not work at all with the rest of the track in that area. Sometimes we have to murder our favorite baby ideas because they don't work Sad And then the transition from the telephone wire into the diagonal roads is certainly awkward, though I see why you didn't want to keep drawing the telephone poles because you wanted to do the perspective shift. It was as well-handled as it could have been, along with practically everything else in this track.

The diagonal section is really fun because of the sense of flying, after having been more grounded for the first section, but I do have to say that it bothers me that it no longer feels like an environment that Bosh is in - he's flying over the landscape, and yet the track must be "hidden" somewhere in the landscape for him to move around. It just doesn't quite feel as visceral, like Bosh is actually in an environment. Again, handling an impossible-to-scene situation as well as you possibly could have. Obviously, you know that there are some weird blank spaces here and there, but I understand it's hard to know how to fill them when you're bending perspectives and shapes of the way things should be to fit the totally arbitrary track lines and nothing really makes much sense anymore. But I still think that even in this nonsensical world it would have been nice to fill some of the blank spaces with simple stuff. Like at the top at 2:13-2:20, the bottom right at 2:26, etc. The houses and the Construction tube thing early on were brilliant and I would have loved to see more of that in the middle section of the diagonals. The ending was really nicely done, especially covering up that messy alt fling, and introducing a horizon right at the top (yeah, there was a horizon with the boat but you can get away with it after the perspective shift)

Overall, I can see why this project was hell to work on and I'm impressed you finished it at all. The games you play with perspective to make our perception of the environment work with this impossible-to-scene track make sense in the moment shows incredible ability to see what will work and what won't in a final product. Many sceners through the years have strong artistic ability but have a hard time translating that from a still, finished piece of art into a Line Rider track with the added elements of camera movement and Bosh's interactions with the environment. Your artistic ability, of course, is not as good as TD, BHCS, LRG, (same with mine! hi five!) but you have a really impressive ability to make something that seems impossible to scene into something that makes sense, and to know what details really matter during the actual watching of the track.

I know you probably don't want to draw another green line ever again after this project (that's how I would feel), but I really do hope you make more scenery tracks, as you have some real talent for making tracks into art in Line Rider - skills that may be unique to this little flash toy.

Aaaaand I should probably throw in my scenery critique form here.
Ambitious? Yes
Epic factor/Impressive? Somewhat. More impressive for me as a scener than for the average viewer.
Complete/Cohesive? Yes
Vision? Yes!
An Experience? For sure.

Quality of art? Pretty good. Nothing to go bananas over but nothing to sneeze at.
Creativity in scening things? Stand-out brilliance with an impossibly hard task. Some stuff that was awkwardly unscened - sometimes this was probably the best choice, other times you probably could have added detail or changed your idea.
Speed manipulations? Really good stuff! love the houses in the first section and the dotted lines in the roads in the second section.
Detail? Some spots could use some work, other spots were good.
Consistency? Some blank spaces - sometimes due to confusing perspective stuff but there could have been less of it overall.
Unified Theme? Yes! Great!
Originality? Hell yeah!
Speed? Bit slow at the beginning, bit fast in the middle of the diagonal section, but overall pretty good.

Monument placement? Track was so dense and full of crap that there weren't many. There maybe could have been some more monument-ish stuff but it may have just added to the confusion. Some stuff could have been monuments if there was more detail added.
Monument usage? Pretty mediocre, bad in places, due mostly to the extremely difficult nature of the track itself.
3-D (extrusion, adding shine, shading, contour lines, adding depth)? Extrusion and contour lines were excellent. There was some attempt at depth but I thought that could have been explored more fully. There definitely could have been some more shading in some areas - work on this.
Made sense? All things considered? not bad.
"Hiding" the track? (this is bad) No instances of this that really bugged me. Some instances that were definitely good decisions!
Good Ending? Yeah. Might have been nice to see something in the sky, but it fits with the rest of the track nicely.

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rabid squirrel
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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:06 pm

^I love this review. Such effort went into writing this and I learned so much about scenery.

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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

Post by Rafael on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:00 pm

@rabid squirrel wrote:All kinds of points about how hard this track is to scene
I partly agree with you on this because of the quirk bits that are impossible to scene, then again I completely disagree because I think the long horizontal lines actually inspired Shotoku to choose this track, and therefore this track wasn't as hard to scene for Shotoku as it would've been for you. For the rest I agree. I'm just really glad this track is made, despite all of it's difficulties.
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Re: Metropolis Run - Shotoku & Gaoyubao (Well Tempered Manual Scened)

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