BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by Wizzy on Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:09 pm

@rabid squirrel wrote:
@[senpai] kevans wrote:What it seems to boil down to are one of two things: The time and dedication it takes to make a track, and the complexity of the gwell system.

With time and dedication, to them it feels like something like a massive scenery track isn't worth their time, or they lack the artistic values to draw something. I have to partly agree with them on this because 1) it does take time to make a scened track, and 2) I myself know the feeling of not having the artistic edge. They've also commented on the time it would take to make a track look decent. Not once will I ever mention how long it takes people to make a track, and the statement is along the lines of "I don't have the time to do that." If anything, this online version should provide the tools to make that easier. Such as a fill tool or something, idk. Well I do know a lot of things that would streamline EVERYTHING, but that's not my call.

When it comes to the gwell system, it's really really difficult to convey that it's a "good" thing. I'll be asked "How do they do that dashed line thing" or "How come all those random lines don't crash/kill him?" When explaining, I feel that as soon as the word "glitch" comes out of my mouth, it turns them off from the system. I was at first turned off as well, before I understood gwells, I associated it with "cheating". And that's typically what glitches are affiliated with, a 'glitch that lets you get infinite items' or something along those lines. If we are to keep the gwells, and obviously we are, they need to no longer be perceived glitch. They need to be presented in the same way as we interpret lines, just another 'trick'.
Yeah IMO you basically hit the nail on the head here.

What this means for the future of line rider is honestly pretty scary, but I don't think anyone could have summed this up better

You don't think? It's funny because I have said this before in the past on more than one occasion. And so has BHCS. The part about time and dedication anyway.

And please. What are you afraid of?

_________________
@Opal Rider wrote:It's cute. But we can go danker.
avatar
Wizzy
Member


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by Conundrumer on Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:29 pm

FreakingKoalaMan wrote:
@rabid squirrel wrote:
Yeah IMO you basically hit the nail on the head here.

What this means for the future of line rider is honestly pretty scary, but I don't think anyone could have summed this up better

You don't think? It's funny because I have said this before in the past on more than one occasion. And so has BHCS. The part about time and dedication anyway.

And please. What are you afraid of?

I agree with you that the editor needs to change to make track making and scening more efficient (the other awesome thing about collaboration is that the scening of large scenery tracks can be massively distributed), but please be respectful.

_________________
Youtube
avatar
Conundrumer
Line Rider Legend

actually working on OII


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by Rafael on Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:49 pm

@[senpai] kevans wrote:
@Conundrumer wrote:I just need to get some fresh perspectives (ie not our perspectives, I already understand you guys) on the nature of quirk, on our community, and on what excites people about Line Rider.

Well lucky for you, I have a few friends of mine who have discussed this with me.

What it seems to boil down to are one of two things: The time and dedication it takes to make a track, and the complexity of the gwell system.

With time and dedication, to them it feels like something like a massive scenery track isn't worth their time, or they lack the artistic values to draw something. I have to partly agree with them on this because 1) it does take time to make a scened track, and 2) I myself know the feeling of not having the artistic edge. They've also commented on the time it would take to make a track look decent. Not once will I ever mention how long it takes people to make a track, and the statement is along the lines of "I don't have the time to do that." If anything, this online version should provide the tools to make that easier. Such as a fill tool or something, idk. Well I do know a lot of things that would streamline EVERYTHING, but that's not my call.

When it comes to the gwell system, it's really really difficult to convey that it's a "good" thing. I'll be asked "How do they do that dashed line thing" or "How come all those random lines don't crash/kill him?" When explaining, I feel that as soon as the word "glitch" comes out of my mouth, it turns them off from the system. I was at first turned off as well, before I understood gwells, I associated it with "cheating". And that's typically what glitches are affiliated with, a 'glitch that lets you get infinite items' or something along those lines. If we are to keep the gwells, and obviously we are, they need to no longer be perceived glitch. They need to be presented in the same way as we interpret lines, just another 'trick'.

2 cents

Hope that sheds some light.
When I explain gwells to my friends, I basically explain them saying the blue/red part of a line is magnetic. If the backside of the line (blue of red side) is affected it has a magnetic pull which make gwells possible. It's not exactly how works but it explains how to work with them.
avatar
Rafael
Line Rider Legend


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by Wizzy on Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:46 pm

@Conundrumer wrote:
FreakingKoalaMan wrote:
@rabid squirrel wrote:
Yeah IMO you basically hit the nail on the head here.

What this means for the future of line rider is honestly pretty scary, but I don't think anyone could have summed this up better

You don't think? It's funny because I have said this before in the past on more than one occasion. And so has BHCS. The part about time and dedication anyway.

And please. What are you afraid of?

I agree with you that the editor needs to change to make track making and scening more efficient (the other awesome thing about collaboration is that the scening of large scenery tracks can be massively distributed), but please be respectful.

I will try my best, but it is hard to respect someone who will not listen to a word one of their members has to say, and instead writes them off with immense disrespect and only later finally reaches an agreement to what I have been proposing only when said by another member. I only give respect to those who deserve/earn it.

I'm simply going to ignore this now. I have some ideas I am going to PM you but I want to make visual examples first to further help convey what I have in mind. I want to make sure my ideas are comprehensible in the best way, and then you can judge them for yourself.

_________________
@Opal Rider wrote:It's cute. But we can go danker.
avatar
Wizzy
Member


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by rabid squirrel on Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:51 am

FreakingKoalaMan wrote:I will try my best, but it is hard to respect someone who will not listen to a word one of their members has to say, and instead writes them off with immense disrespect and only later finally reaches an agreement to what I have been proposing only when said by another member. I only give respect to those who deserve/earn it.

_________________
Support My Art
A playlist of my best tracks
To keep up with what I'm up to in the world of Line Rider, follow me:
My Twitter | My Tumblr | My Twitch | My Facebook Page | My Instagram
(You can also follow my patreon and see all public posts completely for free)
avatar
rabid squirrel
Member

I'm the artsy guy round here

Community Pick: Braggadocio
3rd place in Tournament of Legends 4th place in Tournament of Legends

View user profile http://www.benjaminharveydesign.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by [senpai] kevans on Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:21 am

Can we not drive this discussion to the ground? This topic should be about our input towards the concept of this online build, not who deserves respect.
avatar
[senpai] kevans
Member

Stay in your coma


View user profile https://kevansevans.github.io/

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:24 pm

Look at all the aggression and spite in this topic. I'm sorry FKM but I do believe you were right if you explained gwells in the same way kevans did

I just like his words and it's all besides the point

I want to figure out how live collabing works.

_________________
Don't delete your tracks!™  Thumbs Up
avatar
ScrungleBlumpkus
Member

Interior Crocodile Alligator


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by efrazable on Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:39 pm

Fill tool sounds like da bess

_________________
@LineMagiX wrote:hump
avatar
efrazable
Member

Durr I'm efraz herp derp


View user profile http://www.youtube.com/user/efrazable?feature=mhee

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by Conundrumer on Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:40 am

Hey guys the source code is now public.

Unfortunately there's no documentation so it's gonna be hard for others to contribute without on-boarding. I'll try to clean it up this weekend after I get a physics engine integrated in.

_________________
Youtube
avatar
Conundrumer
Line Rider Legend

actually working on OII


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:32 pm

THEME EDITOR.
Make ya own rider and buttons and things.
[/idea]

_________________
Don't delete your tracks!™  Thumbs Up
avatar
ScrungleBlumpkus
Member

Interior Crocodile Alligator


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by TheRevTastic on Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:38 pm

Dapianokid wrote:THEME EDITOR.
Make ya own rider and buttons and things.
[/idea]

That was the most fun I think I had in Unbound, making my own bosh and sled. I made a Master Chief riding a ghost from Halo.

_________________

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:21 pm

@TheRevTastic wrote:
Dapianokid wrote:THEME EDITOR.
Make ya own rider and buttons and things.
[/idea]

That was the most fun I think I had in Unbound, making my own bosh and sled. I made a Master Chief riding a ghost from Halo.
See this is what the userbase has to say

_________________
Don't delete your tracks!™  Thumbs Up
avatar
ScrungleBlumpkus
Member

Interior Crocodile Alligator


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by FlagCapper on Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:39 am

@mhenr18 wrote:Browsers are *not* required to maintain a certain precision for their Math.sqrt functions, which makes this somewhat hard.
This is a problem with doing this in javascript; implementations may differ across browsers, and when lots of browsers update automatically (Chrome) you're going to have things breaking one day for no reason, especially since nobody expects floating point arithmetic to be consistent anyway.

If you do make the game this way, it might be worthwhile to do everything using long integers (javascript doesn't really have long integers, but you can fake it). The key is to have the actual position of the rider be represented by some fraction of the "higher" bits and keep several sub-pixel bits available to do calculations so the movement isn't jerky. You don't lose any meaningful precision this way, and you avoid the common floating-point-esque bugs where the movement becomes really choppy when you go far out on the map (see: minecraft, falling for a long time in beta 2).



As for portability, there's probably an ugly way to hack it. When importing a beta 2 track, ask the user to specify a length of time they would like to import as well as the track itself. Then use the beta 2 source code to calculate the movements of the rider for that length of time, and include with the save file a long list of co-ordinates that are "out of bounds" for editing; that is, it is impossible to draw new lines there. These co-ordinates will be pathway that the rider moves through the (initial segment of the) track. Then when playing the track, you simply have a phase where you play the pre-rendered portion from beta 2, and only after which you invoke the new physics. It's ugly, but in practice nobody wants to draw lines that create conflict with the beginning of their track anyway (you could still draw scenery lines).

FlagCapper
Line Rider Legend

Community Pick: SYTYKC
4th place in Tournament of Legends

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by mhenr18 on Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:43 am

@FlagCapper, I fall in the fixed point camp. Far more portable, except for the fact as youve mentioned that we dont have Int64s in JS. Emscripten generates code to emulate that though, so it could be worth writing an engine in native code and exporting a JS interface to the compiled asm.js code.

mhenr18
Member


View user profile http://www.mhenr18.com

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by [senpai] kevans on Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:12 pm

@FlagCapper wrote:
Spoiler:
As for portability, there's probably an ugly way to hack it. When importing a beta 2 track, ask the user to specify a length of time they would like to import as well as the track itself. Then use the beta 2 source code to calculate the movements of the rider for that length of time, and include with the save file a long list of co-ordinates that are "out of bounds" for editing; that is, it is impossible to draw new lines there. These co-ordinates will be pathway that the rider moves through the (initial segment of the) track. Then when playing the track, you simply have a phase where you play the pre-rendered portion from beta 2, and only after which you invoke the new physics. It's ugly, but in practice nobody wants to draw lines that create conflict with the beginning of their track anyway (you could still draw scenery lines).

The physics actually aren't going to be that hard to replicate, every little thing is a simple math equation. Though beta 2 support isn't really something needed, and it's been mentioned multiple times. We'll just finish on what we have in beta 2 and then move on, or a lot of people will stick with the flash builds. I don't know why everyone thinks these future builds need to run on floating point, regular integers will do just fine. Have you ever taken the time to see how long it takes to actually make it bug out from a long distance? Someone has to deliberately sit for a few minutes of watching freefall for it to happen, at which point bosh is like at 2000 p/f.
avatar
[senpai] kevans
Member

Stay in your coma


View user profile https://kevansevans.github.io/

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by FlagCapper on Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:39 pm

@[senpai] kevans wrote:
The physics actually aren't going to be that hard to replicate, every little thing is a simple math equation.
The entire point of the first half of my post is how to make sure that old tracks don't break from a simple javascript update.

I don't know why everyone thinks these future builds need to run on floating point, regular integers will do just fine. Have you ever taken the time to see how long it takes to actually make it bug out from a long distance?
This doesn't even make sense; the bug is caused from floating point, regular integers will eliminate the bug.

FlagCapper
Line Rider Legend

Community Pick: SYTYKC
4th place in Tournament of Legends

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by [senpai] kevans on Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:57 pm

@FlagCapper wrote:
@[senpai] kevans wrote:
The physics actually aren't going to be that hard to replicate, every little thing is a simple math equation.
The entire point of the first half of my post is how to make sure that old tracks don't break from a simple javascript update.

I don't know why everyone thinks these future builds need to run on floating point, regular integers will do just fine. Have you ever taken the time to see how long it takes to actually make it bug out from a long distance?
This doesn't even make sense; the bug is caused from floating point, regular integers will eliminate the bug.

Sorry, misread.

But backwards compatibility isn't something we desperately need.
avatar
[senpai] kevans
Member

Stay in your coma


View user profile https://kevansevans.github.io/

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by SethComposerGuy on Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:35 pm

@[senpai] kevans wrote:
@FlagCapper wrote:
@[senpai] kevans wrote:
The physics actually aren't going to be that hard to replicate, every little thing is a simple math equation.
The entire point of the first half of my post is how to make sure that old tracks don't break from a simple javascript update.

I don't know why everyone thinks these future builds need to run on floating point, regular integers will do just fine. Have you ever taken the time to see how long it takes to actually make it bug out from a long distance?
This doesn't even make sense; the bug is caused from floating point, regular integers will eliminate the bug.

Sorry, misread.

But backwards compatibility isn't something we desperately need.

except if a track you're working on suddenly breaks before you're ready to record and publish it due to a random javascript update. Shocked

_________________
major solo tracks:

New rabid Squirrel challenge: archive all lr videos available before their creators deletes them. Shocked
avatar
SethComposerGuy
Line Rider Legend

4th place in Tournament of Legends

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by Conundrumer on Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:48 pm

@SethComposerGuy wrote:
@[senpai] kevans wrote:[...]
But backwards compatibility isn't something we desperately need.

except if a track you're working on suddenly breaks before you're ready to record and publish it due to a random javascript update. Shocked

Kevans was referring to compatibility with beta2 tracks. In any case, this is honestly the least of our problems. Javascript has a huge community, I keep myself updated with web technologies, and there will be workarounds if an unlikely event like breaking changes with Javascript happens.

Coincidentally, this scenario (track broke right before recording) actually happened with my latest track, though for different reasons.


In the next day or so, I'll help Kevans get onboarded with LineOnline, and maybe we can livestream this process so other people can have their environments set up to test the latest version of LineOnline.

_________________
Youtube
avatar
Conundrumer
Line Rider Legend

actually working on OII


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by [senpai] kevans on Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:58 pm

Beta 2 support would probably be something added in much afterwards. While I do want to keep the physics identical as possible, I can't promise a 1:1 translation since we're both aiming to improve how the game functions. This is the main reason why it's not a super high priority, because it would end up being more effort than what it's worth. I remember when silverlight attempted the beta 2 import, and it failed miserably. No clue how they fucked that up, but it's a prime example of a more solid platform. Iirc, silverlight ran much smoother than beta 2 and even could rewind flawlessly.

Also I really just want to make something that's just playable for now. I've mentioned this multiple times already, but we can't be "reinventing the wheel" when it comes to these ports. We keep aiming too high and shooting ourselves in the foot.

In the mean time, I would encourage people to share ideas for a new UI. While I really like the one Conun made for the current alpha/beta version, I feel that the current system will need a major overhaul.
avatar
[senpai] kevans
Member

Stay in your coma


View user profile https://kevansevans.github.io/

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:47 pm

I would be very excited to perhaps become involved in this project, so I'll try to tune in for the onboarding of kev.

_________________
Don't delete your tracks!™  Thumbs Up
avatar
ScrungleBlumpkus
Member

Interior Crocodile Alligator


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by CHiH on Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:49 am

I'm gonna have to check this out Smile It seems like LR would be a natural fit on tablets, an infinitely interesting physics sim ahead of its time.

One thing I'd like to mention is when other people were looking over my shoulder, they always seemed to like the flatsled, simple scenery tracks. I think I'd probably try that if I ever drew a full one again, and probably hide the few tricks I'd include. Most, if not all, couldn't understand why gwells were interesting at all. And then in perfect cognitive dissonance would exploit cracks in games that made them less fun. Sigh.

_________________
I are publeshd
avatar
CHiH
Member

4th place in Tournament of Legends

View user profile http://www.youtube.com/user/system0101

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by rabid squirrel on Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:44 am

@[senpai] kevans wrote:We keep aiming too high and shooting ourselves in the foot.
AMEN BROTHER

_________________
Support My Art
A playlist of my best tracks
To keep up with what I'm up to in the world of Line Rider, follow me:
My Twitter | My Tumblr | My Twitch | My Facebook Page | My Instagram
(You can also follow my patreon and see all public posts completely for free)
avatar
rabid squirrel
Member

I'm the artsy guy round here

Community Pick: Braggadocio
3rd place in Tournament of Legends 4th place in Tournament of Legends

View user profile http://www.benjaminharveydesign.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by ScrungleBlumpkus on Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:50 pm

@CHiH wrote:I'm gonna have to check this out Smile It seems like LR would be a natural fit on tablets, an infinitely interesting physics sim ahead of its time.

One thing I'd like to mention is when other people were looking over my shoulder, they always seemed to like the flatsled, simple scenery tracks. I think I'd probably try that if I ever drew a full one again, and probably hide the few tricks I'd include. Most, if not all, couldn't understand why gwells were interesting at all. And then in perfect cognitive dissonance would exploit cracks in games that made them less fun. Sigh.

Can we get an amen smily? THIS A THOUSAND TIMES. People watching my tracks, friends in person, were floored by interesting directions. The gwell parts of my tracks were "meh" at the most. Yet, my friends are the types of people who help me write homebrew Ocarina codes or find place to go through walls in games.

The other thing I wanted to amen was TABLET LR OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG because YES. I have tried so hard to accelerate the game to run on my tablet smoothly. I just think a new game would be better, hosted in the window's appstore or something!

_________________
Don't delete your tracks!™  Thumbs Up
avatar
ScrungleBlumpkus
Member

Interior Crocodile Alligator


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by Conundrumer on Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:35 am

@Conundrumer wrote:...I'll help Kevans get onboarded with LineOnline, and maybe we can livestream this process so other people can have their environments set up to test the latest version of LineOnline.

So we ended up not livestreaming it since someone else was streaming, but this is turning out to be pretty tedious, because it takes a fair amount of massaging to get Windows to be Unix-like. We've only gotten sublime text, git, and node set up so far.

When I get around to updating the editor, I'll add touchscreen support and responsive design.

_________________
Youtube
avatar
Conundrumer
Line Rider Legend

actually working on OII


View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: BIG NEWS: New Line Rider version "Line Online" with integrated website in development

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum